Help Nate's acros color up

[gnatp2]

So the title just about says it. Help me color up my sps corals. I've had some success and some failure. Overall I'm not too happy with the coloration of my corals. I fear I have an overabundance of zooxanthaellae.

Here is the progression of some of my corals:

Frag from a year ago:

Frag 6 months later

Frag now:

I know my photography isn't great at all, but overtime I've seen this piece lighten up to a more neon green and am happy with it.


Here's another one:

1 year ago

today:

Those 2 frags have not grown extremely well but have colored up nicely. Now here's one that I'm working on and its color has only gotten more golden brown over time.

4 months ago:

Pink/Purpleish

Now:

It has grown a little bit but the color isn't great.

Here's a picture of my entire tank so you can see where everything is placed:

I had some issues with Phosphates in the past which were as high as 2 when I first started. I now am running a phosban reactor which has taken those down to .03 according to salifert.

Here's my tank equipment (from my tank thread):

Tank parameters:
PH 8.3
Calcium 450
Alk 11
Magnesium 1140 (lower than I'd like)
Salinity 1.025
Phosphates 0.03
Nitrates .5

Equipment:
120g tank with dual overflows
55g sump
DAS EX-2 skimmer
2 400W 14K Hamilton bulbs on a pfo ballast
2 T5 tek actinic lights
2 Tunze 6100 on a multicontroller
1" Sea swirl as main return from sump
Korallin Calcium reactor on a PH controller with ARM media
Phosban reactor with phosban media
1/3 hp aqualogic chiller

Supplimentation:
I feed 1 cube of a random mix of food I threw together (formula 1, nori, oyster eggs, etc....), 1 cube of e pacifia plankton, and 1 small cube of cyclopese. I feed this every other day. Also I squirt 30 ml's of DT's phytoplankton. I dose ESV potassium Iodide, ESV Magnesium Cloride, and ESV Stronium as needed. My topoff water is a weak solution of Kalkwasser to keep the PH up.

Please HELP me get the colors great on these corals. I'm also looking at what time horizon you would expect improvements. For example I thought Phosphates were the problem but my phosphates have been at .03 for the past month or so. Should my corals have recovered by now?

Thanks,
Nate

 

[GQ22]

Im no expert but im guessing nutrients based off the greenshades on your glass, as well as your readings. Chances are your readings are higher than the test. Also you dont really have much to feed in that tank. Seems excessive.

Do you clean your skimmer neck to optimize performance?

 

[jackson6745]

Nate your Phosphates are higher than .03. Salifert PO4 testkit is very inaccurate. See that heavy green algae on the glass? You only get that when phosphates are very high. I bet your Po4 is still >1

How old is your phosban? Are you using the whole 150g jar?

The wired thing is that your corals look bleached and browned at the same time. How long is your halide photoperiod?

 

[reefman]

i think its the intensity. how old r the bulbs? try placing a colony closer to the lights n taking a pic. then take the same pic 2 weeks later.

 

[jackson6745]

i think its the intensity. how old r the bulbs? try placing a colony closer to the lights n taking a pic. then take the same pic 2 weeks later.

U think the 400w 14k's he is running are not bright enough?

 

[reefman]

the lights r strong, but may not be hitting the corals. maybe not penetrating into the water or lights too high up. i dont know. if the sps is browning or getting super zooxanthaellae, it may be trying to over produce zoo to absorb more lighting. i think i read that on aqua frontier. pls correct me if i'm mistaken.

 

[jackson6745]

the lights r strong, but may not be hitting the corals. maybe not penetrating into the water or lights too high up. i dont know. if the sps is browning or getting super zooxanthaellae, it may be trying to over produce zoo to absorb more lighting. i think i read that on aqua frontier. pls correct me if i'm mistaken.

I don't know what the explanation is

These corals have very little color. The color that they do have is brown from his phosphates. Th closer your get to the tips the lighter the brown color is because he is bleaching the $hit out of them. So to correct this color problem replace your Po4 media with a full 150g of phosban, reduce feeding, probably going to have to shorten the halide photoperiod or lower these corals.

 

[cali_reef]

From the lack of coraline and plenty of diatom, I would think he has too much light.

Why is your Mg low if you are testing and dosing? What brand of salt are you using?

 

[loismustdie]

I personally feel 400W DE is a little much... possibly where the bleaching comes from. DE bulbs burn at a much higher wattage than it's wattage indicates. That's why there were guys recommending DE bulbs because they burn brighter than SE. I remember someone saying 250w DE is equal to 400w SE... problem is, the 250W DE run at over 350 watts. I would go 400W single ended and dump the 14k. You'll get much better growth and color with 10,000k (I like XM and Reeflux). If you want more blue, a cheap option is 2 48 inch T-5 properly driven on an Icecap Dynamic T-5 ballast.
You feed your tank too much crap. Are you rinsing the frozen food with RO/DI before you feed it to the tank? There's tons of PO4 in that. Rinsing it helps a lot.
Your PO4 is high. That's where the brown is from. What test kits are you using? Your pictures do not show these good results you say you get from these test kits.
My shot at this is, brown from PO4 (you're adding more than you are removing) and bleached from too long of a photoperiod.

 

[gnatp2]

Also you dont really have much to feed in that tank. Seems excessive.

Would you suggest cutting that in half? The 2 "cubes" i feed are about the size that come in the formula one trays. The cyclopese is about 1/4 cube size.

Do you clean your skimmer neck to optimize performance?

Yes. But I'm not sure if I'm getting good performance from my skimmer though. It fills up about once every 2 weeks. (i typically pour it out after it fills 1/2 way up though). I do try to run it as wet as possible.

Nate your Phosphates are higher than .03. Salifert PO4 testkit is very inaccurate. See that heavy green algae on the glass? You only get that when phosphates are very high. I bet your Po4 is still >1

How old is your phosban? Are you using the whole 150g jar?

Yeah, I'm using a full 150g of phosban. My phosban reactor is new and I started using it about 2 weeks ago. I think you're probably right though about my phosphates possibly being high. Is there another more accurate way to test the phosphates?

The wired thing is that your corals look bleached and browned at the same time. How long is your halide photoperiod?

I know. This is exactly why i'm so confused. My photoperiod for the 2 halides is 8 hours. The T5's come on 1 hr before and turn off 1 hr after. (I recently added these T5's and I'd say that they are improving the color of the corals overall, but I still obviously have issues.)

I don't know what the explanation is

These corals have very little color. The color that they do have is brown from his phosphates. Th closer your get to the tips the lighter the brown color is because he is bleaching the $hit out of them. So to correct this color problem replace your Po4 media with a full 150g of phosban, reduce feeding, probably going to have to shorten the halide photoperiod or lower these corals.

The weird thing is that the larger coral in the pics above is at the VERY bottom of my tank.

Why is your Mg low if you are testing and dosing? What brand of salt are you using?

My Mg is low just from my last test. I typically keep it at around 1300. For salt I have been using Tropic Marin.

I personally feel 400W DE is a little much... possibly where the bleaching comes from. I would go 400W single ended and dump the 14k. You'll get much better growth and color with 10,000k (I like XM and Reeflux). If you want more blue, a cheap option is 2 48 inch T-5 properly driven on an Icecap Dynamic T-5 ballast.

The bulbs I use are single ended. I agree that I should go for 10,000K as well. I had a couple EVC bulbs in there but they weren't the same color at all so I am in the process of returning them and getting new ones. My T5 ballast is Triad.

You feed your tank too much crap. Are you rinsing the frozen food with RO/DI before you feed it to the tank? There's tons of PO4 in that. Rinsing it helps a lot.
Your PO4 is high. That's where the brown is from. What test kits are you using? Your pictures do not show these good results you say you get from these test kits.
My shot at this is, brown from PO4 (you're adding more than you are removing) and bleached from too long of a photoperiod.

No, never have rinsed my food. I'll give it a shot though. My test kits are salifert.





Ok, now after all of this, here's my best guess at trying to take initial steps in the right direction. Let me know what you think:

Shorten the Photoperiod for the halides to 7 hours
Put some screen to lower the intensity of the lights a little bit
Feed about 1/2 what I am feeding now
Get another phosban reactor and fill that guy up with Phosban as well

 

[jackson6745]

I would shorten my halide PP to 4 hrs and keep the t5's on between 10-12hrs. This alone will make a huge difference in color. I would agree you need more phosban.

 

[cali_reef]

What is your water temperature with two 400W MH on for 8 hours a day?

 

[gnatp2]

What is your water temperature with two 400W MH on for 8 hours a day?

Luckily with my chiller I am able to keep it at 79-81.

I would shorten my halide PP to 4 hrs and keep the t5's on between 10-12hrs. This alone will make a huge difference in color. I would agree you need more phosban.

Wow. that seems quite short, but I'll give it a shot starting tomorrow.

Overall, how soon would you guys guess that I should expect to start to see some improvement?

 

[loismustdie]

I would shorten my halide PP to 4 hrs and keep the t5's on between 10-12hrs. This alone will make a huge difference in color. I would agree you need more phosban.

agreed.
I thought they were DE, don't do anything to try to dim them like adding a layer of screen or raising. They'll be fine. Just shorten the photo period of your Halides. Damn, I run 250's SE on a shorter photo period.
Your best bet to test for nutrients is really Hanna. They are very expensive and it will take quite some time for it to pay for itself (if you test regularly). I think 3 of us have one, so you can always take a sample to who ever is closest to you.
Noticable improvements could take 2 weeks, could take 4 months. It's hard to say. Give them time. If you move to fast, you can do too much and kill them. Start with the lower photoperiod (I would drop down to 6 hours right away and then slowly drop down to 4 or 5 hours. Rinse your food before you fed it. You are feeding way too much. Feed less. I consider myself an overfeeder and I have more fish than you yet still feed less. I would lose the 14K, especially since you've already got the T-5's. 10,000k all the way. Patience. You'll be looking great in no time.

 

[2Sunny]

Another 2 cents.

Quoted from an RC thread from September of 2003

Anyways, yes I do chuckle whenever I hear the "too much light" theories. Here's a shot showing the amazing lack of green algae.

http://members.aol.com/sunvox/RS1.jpeg

May 2003
http://members.aol.com/sunvox/Morph2.jpeg

September 2003

http://members.aol.com/sunvox/Morph2a.jpeg

At the time I was running 3 1000 watt bulbs, because I was on the Holy Grail quest for coloration just like you and I thought if 250 was ok and 400 was better then 1000 watts must be the best. In the end I cracked the acrylic bracing on the top of my tank and returned to 400 watt bulbs. I did though switch from 20k to 14k and ultimately settled on 10k with lots of actinic supplementation.

Now having said all that let me add my 2 cents to the list of great advice already handed out. First I agree that the primary problem confronting you is water quality. So the immediate question is what can you do to improve your water quality. Number one is the feeding - I would only put in food that you can visibly see being eaten in 2 minutes or less. In other words cut out the phyto, etc. But don't be afraid to feed your poor fish everyday; not sure if I understood you correctly but it seems you mentioned only feeding every other day. Next you mentioned that your skimmer seems to only fill up every 2 weeks or so; that seems unbelievable and I would say something is dirty or needs adjusting. Although I don't do it my skimmer could use a good cleaning everyday and by the end of 2 weeks it would be woefully clogged, even the little Prizm Pro I run on my 30 gallon frag tank with no livestock needs cleaning atleast once a week because it is filthy. After checking the skimmer I would consider adding 2 cups of charcoal in a sock into your sump, and then changing out 1 cup every month or so. I know this is slightly controversial, but personally I wouldn't even consider running a reef without it. After skimmer and charcoal, I would move onto water changes. I would suggest 25% to 50% changes bi-weekly until you get the phosphates and nitrates to zero, AND hold onto your hat because here comes the most controversial recommendation of all . . . while you are doing the water changes start siphoning the sand bed. Use a 1 inch piece of PVC attached to 3/8 inch hose and clean that sand. After seeing Steve Weast's tank and talking to him at some length I am convinced most sand beds are merely detritus traps and not effective filters. Last but not least after adjusting the skimmer, adding charcoal, changing water, and cleaning your sand bed I would change to 10k bulbs and add more acitinic T5s with either a homemade ad-on or some type of retrofit kit.

If you do all that and your corals don't turn beautiful colors I will eat my hat and give you a free Oregon Tort frag :flower: :beer: :spin:

Anyways, take everyone's advice mull it over and give it you best shot and then be sure to let us all know how it's coming!


Best of luck! And Happy Reefin'

Joe

Don't forget to check out my website at www.bluefrags.com!

 

[spykes]

Quoted from an RC thread from September of 2003

At the time I was running 3 1000 watt bulbs, because I was on the Holy Grail quest for coloration just like you and I thought if 250 was ok and 400 was better then 1000 watts must be the best. In the end I cracked the acrylic bracing on the top of my tank and returned to 400 watt bulbs. I did though switch from 20k to 14k and ultimately settled on 10k with lots of actinic supplementation.

Now having said all that let me add my 2 cents to the list of great advice already handed out. First I agree that the primary problem confronting you is water quality. So the immediate question is what can you do to improve your water quality. Number one is the feeding - I would only put in food that you can visibly see being eaten in 2 minutes or less. In other words cut out the phyto, etc. But don't be afraid to feed your poor fish everyday; not sure if I understood you correctly but it seems you mentioned only feeding every other day. Next you mentioned that your skimmer seems to only fill up every 2 weeks or so; that seems unbelievable and I would say something is dirty or needs adjusting. Although I don't do it my skimmer could use a good cleaning everyday and by the end of 2 weeks it would be woefully clogged, even the little Prizm Pro I run on my 30 gallon frag tank with no livestock needs cleaning atleast once a week because it is filthy. After checking the skimmer I would consider adding 2 cups of charcoal in a sock into your sump, and then changing out 1 cup every month or so. I know this is slightly controversial, but personally I wouldn't even consider running a reef without it. After skimmer and charcoal, I would move onto water changes. I would suggest 25% to 50% changes bi-weekly until you get the phosphates and nitrates to zero, AND hold onto your hat because here comes the most controversial recommendation of all . . . while you are doing the water changes start siphoning the sand bed. Use a 1 inch piece of PVC attached to 3/8 inch hose and clean that sand. After seeing Steve Weast's tank and talking to him at some length I am convinced most sand beds are merely detritus traps and not effective filters. Last but not least after adjusting the skimmer, adding charcoal, changing water, and cleaning your sand bed I would change to 10k bulbs and add more acitinic T5s with either a homemade ad-on or some type of retrofit kit.

If you do all that and your corals don't turn beautiful colors I will eat my hat and give you a free Oregon Tort frag :flower: :beer: :spin:

Anyways, take everyone's advice mull it over and give it you best shot and then be sure to let us all know how it's coming!


Best of luck! And Happy Reefin'

Joe

Don't forget to check out my website at www.bluefrags.com!

now this is what i call advice

 

[gnatp2]

Thanks again guys for all the help. I must admit that I am a bit obsessed with my aquarium the way it is now and kinda fear if this all turns out well that I might end up in that "I never leave my aquarium's side" club. We'll see how the girlfriend feels about that.

I turned the photoperiod to 6 hours starting tomorrow and will lower it to 4 over the next week.

I'm gunna empty out the current phosban media, replace it and get another one hooked up as soon as I can. Also I'll go with 10,000K bulbs once those get replaced by Ocean Encounters. I am still very curious to know what my true phosphate reading is since it appears it must be high despite salifert. Makes me wonder what else is way off as well. Anyone have a Hanna meter around the Greenwich village or Midtown area that I could swing by with a water sample and check?

Thanks,
Nate

 

[loismustdie]

Drop down to 6 hours, then knock off 30 minutes a month until you get down to 4 hours. Easy does it.

 

[2Sunny]

2 more thoughts

Just thought of 2 other ideas as well

1) You are using RO/DI water for top off and water changes right?
2) You might try using some B-Ionic additive as well; that stuff is like crack for corals. It makes them go crazy :Hydrogen:

Joe

 

[gnatp2]

Just thought of 2 other ideas as well

1) You are using RO/DI water for top off and water changes right?
2) You might try using some B-Ionic additive as well; that stuff is like crack for corals. It makes them go crazy :Hydrogen:

Joe

Yes, I definitely use ro/di water. My tap water is AWEFUL though. It is full of phosphates and iron so I change the filters very frequently. My filters look dark dark dark dark brown after about 100 gallons of good water. AHHHH, maybe this is the source of the phosphate problem? I do have a TDS meter though and always make sure it reads 0.

I've never tried B-Ionic. Never really saw the point of it to be honest. I add my calcium and alk through a Korallin Calcium reactor and with a light kalkwasser solution for top off.

Great advice. Thanks for the help,
Nate