Need some advice

PepperMShrimp

Just Me
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Utah
Hi Guys,
I hope you don't mind me popping into your site like this, but I'm looking for someone that can give me some help with DBTC. I live in Utah and have done extensive research with DBTC but would like to chat with someone that is actively participating with it in a new setting...like you all are.

I've read through a lot of your thread and it seems to be going fairly well. Is there someone here that would be willing to answer a few questions for me? I'm really anxious to get our site up and running, but without some answers that don't seem to be posted anywhere.

I hope someone can help. If so, just pm me. And feel free to delete this post if I wasn't supposed to make it. Thanks.

Amie
 

NYreefNoob

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The Dbtc Never Last Long, It Was All Gun Ho At First, Then The Problems Arise, Thing's Arent Done As Requested, People Get Pissed Off, People Want $100 Frags And Want To Pass $10 One Forward, It's A Great Thing If People Are Fair About It
 

Pinkheine

No More Room :-(
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The Dbtc Never Last Long, It Was All Gun Ho At First, Then The Problems Arise, Thing's Arent Done As Requested, People Get Pissed Off, People Want $100 Frags And Want To Pass $10 One Forward, It's A Great Thing If People Are Fair About It

$10 or $100 really should it matter? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of what the spirit of DBTC is?

Correct me if I'm wrong please, though for myself I saw the DBTC as a way for fellow reefers to share with one another corals and keep the community growing, with little to no impact on the ocean's reefs. To add diversity to our systems for the simple reason to pass on a piece of our own little glass box to another that shares in the same addiction. Not because "so and so" had a rare piece to offer and "so and so" had a common piece to offer. Either way the gift alone carries the same weight, does it not?


It is truly a shame that the DBTC lost steam and became what it is currently.
 

NYreefNoob

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pink it really isnt the cost, but if you followed it when it started on here people seemed to just want to stock their tanks with stuff for free. read back to it and see how long it lasted. or how many people really payed it forward. speaking of which in a month or two i'll be paying mine forward, as for what i meant by 10 or 100 dollar frags is people will and did get some nice stuff and had nice stuff of their own already and wanted to pay forward some star polyps, greed will always kill this type of thing. the california thread would be the one i would check out, thats where our's got started from.
 

Pinkheine

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Better you than me saying it was based solely on greed, or in the least became so after not so long. Though I will not disagree. The rules that people put forth alone were not enough to have the program fold, as far as how the frags were to be cared for or the type of established tank someone would need to house the frag being offered.

I was extremely happy to see something like DBTC started here, even if it varied some from what the Bay Area Reefers have done. What it became... or what it actually was... remains to be seen. There have been numerous attempts by several members to get it up and running again or in the least to gain updates on some of the frags that were handed off over 6months ago when the program started. Not an update to be seen in many if not most threads.

The best advice I can offer to PepperMShrimp regarding DBTC is to take what we have done here lightly and do it differently. How do you make it right? I don't know. How do you make it work? I don't know. What I do know is that it would have and could have been a great thing for all of us, if only it gained as much momentum as the frag swap preview threads. But then again that brings in $$ a totally different motivator for people.

I feel naive at best when I think on how I thought it would go and how it should be. Though this is one time where I will embrace my naivete and continue to see the DBTC or any program like it in a pure form as it was originally intended. There are reefers willing and able to keep it going and for that alone I am thankful. That not all, not everyone, is sucked into the what's in it for me... but what can I offer simply because it's a good thing to do.
 

Keith P

Mr. No-Show
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There are two kinds of chains:

One where frags are given out. The receiver then lets the frags grow until they can refrag it again. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 4. And so on.

Then there is the type where one person gives a frag to someone. That person then gives a different frag to the next person.

I like the first concept more. I'd like to see people get back into it...
 

Killerdrgn

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Park Ridge, NJ
Personally I feel the fact that we went into full "production" of a DBTC without having a "testing" phase really killed the DBTC. We should have started on the small scale between groups of people that knew each other first. And then from there worked it's way out to people they individually knew and could vouch for, and who they knew individually and could vouch for, then the extended group, etc, etc. So it would form a chain of "honest" people.

Also from the "testing" phase you would be able to put out a template of how the DBTC should go. How it was run on our boards, at least how I feel, was that everyone had their own set of rules and as time went on it became more and more strict until it just stopped. I really feel a standard set of rules that all participants had to abide by would have really helped.
 

tosiek

Senior Member
Manhattan Reefs
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The small scale DBTC testing or "theory" where it came from has been around for a while, never stopped, and will always be here. People always go over peoples houses and drop off frags or pick some up as visiting gifts, ect., and those people do the same when a reefer comes over. Its always been there and will never stop.

On the public scale MRDBTC, alot of people are having problems financially so other things/worries have been taking up their time. That coupled with greedy people, or people that wanted to participate but didn't have anything in their tank besides some yellow or button polyps, complications with meeting people due to schedualing, ect. Alot more went into whatever happened recently with MRDBTC than just "greedy people ruining it" even though that was a very big turnoff for people. But its something that people have to get through, accept that there are alot of them out there, and keep trying.

IMO, i think people forgot the true meaning of what this whole thing was about but never clearly stated or emphasized. Its the reason the private DBTC works well and will never really fail and its the reason the west coast DBTC is so successful.

Its about meeting and getting to a more personal aquaintance with the people your DBTCing the coral with, creating bonds between fellow reefers that go over the fact that "i gave him a frag so i gotto watch and make sure he passes it along". If that made any sense.

People were too caught up in the act of passing along a coral for the sake of passing one foreward.

Anyways, Bay area DBTC works so well because they are a closer knit community, and from what i understand the reason they are is because of the DBTC and how close people got through it. Im sure a little san fran west coast mentality played a part of it too =0) New yorkers are always in a rush running around with their heads up their asses :irked: :lol:
 
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PepperMShrimp

Just Me
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Utah
Thank you for all of your responses. I would have responded sooner but when I originally posted I never saw my post show up so I just assumed that I wasn't supposed to post on your board. And no, no one pm'd me. But I can see why now...it doesn't sound like you have a good solid DBTC yet.

All of your comments really help though. We are just getting ramped up and I can see the value in what you guys are saying. We haven't announced it yet, which is probably a good thing. The small group sounds like a good idea and then branching out after it's established.

We are currently doing a major overhaul to the FAQ page because we didn't feel it really explained the real purpose and procedure of the organization. I think BAR gets it because they started it, but when I read it...well, I had lots of questions. I don't want anyone to join thinking that they will be getting free corals. They are actually paying for those corals by keeping them in their tanks long enough to produce 2 additional frags. In other words, they are the stewards of those corals until they can donate 2 frags back to DBTC...then they can have the remaining coral to keep for themselves. I hope that makes a difference in how people look at it and in their decision to join or not.

Also, we have gone to a lot of work to make sure we use a new tracking system that one of the BAR members designed. It will chart out who's donated and received corals. How many corals a person has 'accidentally' killed. How many different types of corals have been donated, ie, SPS, LPS, Softies, Inverts, Fish, etc. (We're a breeder's forum, so we hope to be able to trade everything that we propagate or raise at some point.)

Hopefully it will work, but who knows. I'd love to hear any comments or suggestions you may have at this point. I really appreciate the ones you have already given me. Thank you.

Amie
 

prattreef

Administrator
Manhattan Reefs
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Amie, I'm one of the ones who brought DBTC to the board and clearly it hasn't quite worked as hoped. MR is a VERY different entity than BAR or most reef clubs for that matter, so this really isn't much of a surprise and I wouldn't use us as much of a test case for DBTC in smaller more traditional clubs. I think it could work here, but one of the main things the BAR guys emphasized was not to make too many rules and not run it top down--- advice that clearly doesn't apply to our situation. I've been planning to try to restart the whole thing and take more of an active role in it, but never seem to find the time.

PM me if you'd like, I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Randy
 

PepperMShrimp

Just Me
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Utah
Thanks Randy, I'll send you a pm because I have a few questions. If you don't get it, it's because I haven't figured your web site out yet - it's the most complicated message board I've ever seen. That time I tried to pm someone, I ended up in some weird journal area....
 
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