Garlic Juice helppsss!!!

[Domboski]

The only reason I'm entertaining this discussion is because I think its a huge injustice to the fish in this hobby if people think because they don't see ich they don't have it. It causes complacency and results in dead fish and empty pockets. People need to know that ich is in their tank and they should be careful when choosing fish for their system. Again, there are exceptions. I know I have tanks with no ich because I treated all of my fish and I don't introduce anything with out it being QT'd first. If I do add a fish before QT I treat my whole system because I don't have corals

Mike, you know your fish for sure but I think what your writing here is old school thinking and not up to date on current knowledge.

 

[marrone]

I'm sorry Mike but your responses don't make sense. Of course in a closed system there is a balance. There is only so much to support a population of parasites.

Think of it this way, when you set up a new system there is a period where the pods are in the zillions (exaggerated for effect). Eventually they die off to a population the system can support. Same thing happens with ich. If you introduce a new fish or fish become stressed the balance gets disrupted and there is potential for a population explosion of ich. Eventually it will die off to a balance that your particular system can support. As long as there is fish in your system there is some level of support. Now when there is a population explosion of ich it can overwhelm healthy fish and kill them. Same thing happens with reptiles in a closed system when it comes to parasites.

Of course there are exceptions. Some fish can deal with ich better than others. A healthy Damsel is more likely to survive ich than say a healthy Powder Blue Tang.

In response to your comment about ich falling off and being picked off in the wild, well, in the ocean, there is ich at all stages of the life cycle so it is basically always on the fish. I've never seen or heard of any invert or fish that is considered a cleaner in the waters of Long Island. So why are the fish not all dead up here?

You're not going to have balance like you would have the ocean, which is a normal balance and period of fish not being infected, or infected to a lesser degree. The fish in the tank are going to keep the ich going, there isn't a reason it's going to die back as there are plenty of hosts for it. The only way it would die back is if it can't find a host, which in a closed system is easy to do. Fish in the ocean are infected, usually with a number of different parasites, but they're not attacked to the point that they can be in a closed system like ours. In the ocean, where there are a lack of ways to remove parasites, you do see fish succumb to diseases and parasites. You also see in our tanks very health fish die from the same parasites.

 

[marrone]

The only reason I'm entertaining this discussion is because I think its a huge injustice to the fish in this hobby if people think because they don't see ich they don't have it. It causes complacency and results in dead fish and empty pockets. People need to know that ich is in their tank and they should be careful when choosing fish for their system. Again, there are exceptions. I know I have tanks with no ich because I treated all of my fish and I don't introduce anything with out it being QT'd first. If I do add a fish before QT I treat my whole system because I don't have corals

Mike, you know your fish for sure but I think what your writing here is old school thinking and not up to date on current knowledge.

I stress to everyone to QT all their fish, and have been doing it for decades. I can't tell you how much I stress to people how serious diseases can be to the fish and they're not to be taken lightly, as I've seen many people lose whole tanks, with perfectly heath fish, in a cases of wipe out. As for old school thinking, and not up to date on the current knowledge, please, don't make me laugh.

 

[Domboski]

As for old school thinking, and not up to date on the current knowledge, please, don't make me laugh.

Okay then read what I circled in red and tell me again that ich doesn't primarily attack the gills until its out of control? when I made the "old school" comment I thought I made it clear I was talking about your comments in this particular discussion. Not all fish related knowledge. If it wasn't clear, I was talking about what your writing here in this thread about ich.

 

[marrone]

And? Who said it doesn't attack the gills?

 

[Domboski]

Me:

Ich in its natural balance will not be seen. Almost everyone has ich in their tank whether they think so or not. Ich in its natural balance lives in the gills. Its only when it starts getting out of control (sick/stressed fish, poor water/environment conditions, etc) cause ich to over take the fish and you start seeing it all over the body and fins.

I believe in a healthy reef/FOWLR system with hardy to semi-hardy healthy fish, ich will not be a lethal problem.

Your response quoting me:

Ich doesn't only attack the gills, it attacks the eyes, mouth and the inside of the fish, the organs and such. Ich is a parasite, and like most parasites, it will hurt its host. In some case it will kill it right away and in others over time.

If your tank has ich, and some of your fish do, you should see some sort of signs of it. Though the signs mayn't be like you the ones that you would see in a full blown out case, as when it starts to take over your tank, but you should still see some signs.

So either your were just repeating what I said or you were trying to say ich does not primarily live in the gills of fish????

 

[reefnhard]

I think Domboski Pretty much Laid it down how it is, I know from my experiences adding Garlic juice in the tank has worked well for me I normally qt my fish but i have at times been lazy and not done it which i should be ashamed to say ....im into aids and one that i like very much is Garlic Juice..

 

[FlyTekk]

Some say that even if you dont see ich it is still attacking in the gills. So does this mean that my fish that havnt shown a sign of ich in over a year are still dying? Or are atleast annoyed by ich?

They seem happy and normal to me.

 

[T3TRODOTOXIN]

Got a question...

Doesn't running a UV light help eradicate ich and any other parasites? I remember reading an article somewhere on here stating that obviously the UV light can't discriminate between bad and good organisms, however its not killing the good nitrifying bacteria on the live rock and sand.

So isn't UV one of the best solutions to ich and other parasites?

 

[FlyTekk]

Id hate to be a pod passing through there!

 

[Domboski]

Ich can live harmlessly in the gills of fish as long as the fish is really healthy (not immune compromised). In this case, there will be no visual ich on the fish. so as long as your fish are healthy and not showing signs of ich chances are they will be fine long term.

UVs are a great way to keep pelagic parasites in check. It won't eliminate ich from the system but if there is some sort of environment stress that causes the fish to weaken, the UV will help control an advanced outbreak of ich. Everyone should run a UV IMO unless they QT everything that they put in the tank and that includes corals.

 

[marrone]

The big problem with UV is getting all the ich to flow through it, which in the MT, with rock, corals and such doesn't happen. The same goes with other parasites, so it maybe effective but it does require the parasite or bacteria to flow through it. You would probably have better success running one on a bare tank, as there is a better chance of getting all the parasites to flow through it. Putting a UV on a tank that already has Ich doesn't get rid of the Ich, you usually need to use some other means to do that, what is does do is make the tank healthier and prevent other type of breakout in the future. You'll find that people that run UV notice this, especially with tanks that are heavily loaded with fish.

As for a UV killing good bacteria, that's very debatable. I'm not sure there has really been any study to say yes or no. You'll find plenty of reef tank running with UV that are fine, though it seem most people don't run them on reef tanks.

 

[mic_1011]

question? i've been battling ich since i got into the hobby a little over a year ago. i have a 175 gal tank with about 25 fish and have recently started adding corals and 3 anemones. my pbt and bht have ich currently. i;ve been contemplating removing the corals and treating the tank or removing the fish and treating the fish and leaving the tank empty for 6 weeks. which would be the best route? and if i completely kill off all he ich. will it come back if there are no new additions?