How to keep rocks clean

[fritz]

I've known plenty of people, some on this board, that kept fowlrs with some of the worst husbandry imaginable and didn't have a swamp. Plants are limited in growth by the lowest available resource. If you know you they have plenty of fertilizer in the tank just limit the amount of light they get. Sure you could go all ro/di by you could also keep it simple. People kept salt tanks for decades before ferrous oxide was used, before ro/Diane with canister filters which we now know are nitrate factories.

My point is there's more than one way to go, fix your water or use lower powered lights. Some no bulbs will keep your rocks clean.

 

[xxnonamexx]

I have power compacts and thinking of LEDs. I also have limited the lights on

 

[fritz]

There you go, pc lights are enough to have a thriving planted tank. With nothing to use those nutrients in a fowlr the algae is in an environment without competition. Try a normal output bulb. One maybe two bulbs aren't enough to really grow algae. It'll certainly slow it down if nothing else. You could go led but keep it light ( no pun intended). The lights are for you not them.

 

[9kin]

Agree with users who say you just covering the problem. Also understand that you want to provide as best enviroment as you. An before your move.

Just want to mention one thing:- do not put phosban bag in the tank if you are doing watef chAnge. Now your bag is full of absorbed phosphates that could be removed (diluted) by the watet change. Just waste of media.

Same analogy- rinse your carbon in rodi water. As if you do it in tap water your carbont start absorbing chemicals in your tap thus unneseseraly reducing its live.
Just some tips for the future.

By the way i used tap for 5 years. Now when i use rodi it is deffinately much healthier system. It does take a lot of time, but this what this hobby is. If you want a pretty tank in your house with no work, concider hiring a tank maintanence crew.

Rregarding phosphates- somebody mentioned rocks leaching phosphates in the water. Very very posible. I recently had to clean algy off my glass every single day. All i had to do is throw out my old phosban mediA. Also for some reason my test kit shows 0.03 for phosphates. Which conciders to be ok, but i guess was not ok enough. So make sure you use quality test kits. I use saliferts- so right now i fo not think they are too good for phosphate testing. Good luck.

 

[xxnonamexx]

Fritz what do you mean a normal output bulb? Should I add macro algae plants? I am a bit confused when you mentioned plants. Fritz thanks for your help. My pcs i think is a time for a change but leds are still expensive for a 48" wide tank. As you mentioned i want it to look nice9kin thanks for the tips.

 

[fritz]

A normal output bulb is a regular plain old fluorescent bulb. You have too much light on your tank to not have algae. You have three possible solutions; you can try in vain to remove any nutrients from your water (any food you add to your tank will end up as plant food eventually). You can add something to the tank that can out-compete the algae for these nutrients, IE macroalgae. Or you can place enough light on the tank for you to see the fish but not enough to sustain any meaningful type of plant life.

As to the argument about providing the best possible life for your fish, leave them in the ocean. I doubt prisoners are more concerned about their air quality than they are about the amount of free space and sunlight they get each day. Just saying. I love tanks obviously I'm here but we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking we're doing anything just for them. Most nano fish have a territory the size of our tanks. In the wild most of the fish in our homes hang out in an area larger than our homes and some cross several miles a day. Yet we consider a "big" tank to be six feet by two feet? Seriously. oh but I digress.....

In any event, if you're running a FOWLR the lights are for you not them. You just need enough light to see the fish. A normal output bulb made for salt will be mostly white and have some blue to it just like your CF bulbs. It won't be as bright but bright = algae. That extra energy has to go somewhere.

 

[Imbarrie]

There is a huge advantage for RODI or even just RO even with a FOWLR tank.
My town added a new chemical to the water supply. It was a type of chlorine that is not easily detectable and they gave no warning.
Plenty of people that did a water change killed their systems because they trusted their care to a municipal water supply. They do this every couple years.
I found this out weeks later. Since I use RODI I had no idea, I was completely unaffected. Others were not so lucky.
There are great reasons to use RODI, there are no good reasons not to.

 

[xxnonamexx]

So I should add macroalgae which should help? I like the CF colors. I will look into other lighting options. You are right they are for me to see the fish can't tell the difference lol.

A normal output bulb is a regular plain old fluorescent bulb. You have too much light on your tank to not have algae. You have three possible solutions; you can try in vain to remove any nutrients from your water (any food you add to your tank will end up as plant food eventually). You can add something to the tank that can out-compete the algae for these nutrients, IE macroalgae. Or you can place enough light on the tank for you to see the fish but not enough to sustain any meaningful type of plant life.

As to the argument about providing the best possible life for your fish, leave them in the ocean. I doubt prisoners are more concerned about their air quality than they are about the amount of free space and sunlight they get each day. Just saying. I love tanks obviously I'm here but we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking we're doing anything just for them. Most nano fish have a territory the size of our tanks. In the wild most of the fish in our homes hang out in an area larger than our homes and some cross several miles a day. Yet we consider a "big" tank to be six feet by two feet? Seriously. oh but I digress.....

In any event, if you're running a FOWLR the lights are for you not them. You just need enough light to see the fish. A normal output bulb made for salt will be mostly white and have some blue to it just like your CF bulbs. It won't be as bright but bright = algae. That extra energy has to go somewhere.

 

[xxnonamexx]

I understand about RO but I know that you can have a healthy SW tank w/ non-ro as well. When I first started I had non-ro for years with a zebra eel and a few fish no problems in a 55 then I moved to a reef with tap then tried ro then the 120 reef with corals with tap water and no issues then to RO but it was time consuming making the water, alot of water waste just for fish and not human consumption. Thanks for the advice

 

[MatthewScars]

Ok, you're so right! So enjoy the algae!

 

[xxnonamexx]

Matthewscars so you are telling me no matter what you do by using with tap water there will always be algae?

 

[MatthewScars]

Matthewscars so you are telling me no matter what you do by using with tap water there will always be algae?

Yup. Unless you just add a bunch of chemicals to make the tap water more like RODI water. Which completely defeats the purpose of using Tap over RODI. SEE SUPPORTING ARTICLES BELOW.

Plus you have a bunch of messy eaters as fish (nothing wrong with this, of course), you claim the tank is neglected, and you use tap water. I mean, how can you expect to NOT have algae?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/1/chemistry

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/dirosetup/a/aa011003.htm

http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm

 

[Imbarrie]

We are all telling you that algae will continue to be a problem unless you address the primary causes of it. That is your water.

Nobody is saying you cannot use tap water, but if you do you will have phosphate loving algae, along with many other problems such as chlorine, metals and micro-organisms.
Not using RODI to me is like leaving your place unlocked when you go to work.

 

[fritz]

I'm not saying its a bad idea to use ro/di I'm just saying that you don't have to. You don't have a reef tank, if you did ro/di would be a very good idea because in a reef you would blast this nutrient rich water with light which would cause tons of algae to flourish.

Plants only grow to their most limiting factor. They have plenty of co2, they have plenty of nutrients and they have plenty of light. You can't limit their co2, you can limit nutrients and in your case (not the case for reef owners) you can limit the light.

That gives you two options:

1. Buy an ro/di and two phosban reactors. Run phosban in one and carbon in the other. In several months after many water changes you'll have gotten most of the nutrients out of your water. When you feed however you'll be adding these nutrients back in. With cf bulbs the algae will continue although less. People will convince you that you need a bigger skimmer, a fuge and to change your filters.

2. Find a $10 normal output bulb the same color as your cf bulb and a $10 fixture to put it in.

Both will yield the same results.

You can also run your water through di resin before using it. It's not as wasteful or expensive as ro/di and phosban is always a good idea. It would also help to not have the light on when you're not looking at the tank. In fact if you did that you'd have almost no plant life in your tank.

 

[xxnonamexx]

just getting confused about plant life when you mention if light stayed off when I wasn't looking at it I would have almost no plant life do you mean algae life? or were you reffering to adding a macroalgae plant. What about LEDs since I noticed Marineland sells a unit with no heat and they are perfect for FOWLR and will probably be better then a normal output bulb. Also instead of 2 Phosphate reactors they sell 1 reactor where I can put nitrate and Phos media inside. I have a huge bag of carbon in the sump already. Thanks

 

[MatthewScars]

just getting confused about plant life when you mention if light stayed off when I wasn't looking at it I would have almost no plant life do you mean algae life? or were you reffering to adding a macroalgae plant. What about LEDs since I noticed Marineland sells a unit with no heat and they are perfect for FOWLR and will probably be better then a normal output bulb. Also instead of 2 Phosphate reactors they sell 1 reactor where I can put nitrate and Phos media inside. I have a huge bag of carbon in the sump already. Thanks

He means algae.

Dude, having a bag of carbon in your sump is a terrible idea. You need the carbon in a reactor. If you dump it in a bag it is used like 20% efficiently depending on the flow through it and it just traps detritus that... wait for it... causes more algae!!!

LED on a Fish only? Dude, these fish would be happy with 120 watt light bulbs on a timer.

Also instead of 2 Phosphate reactors they sell 1 reactor where I can put nitrate and Phos media inside.

Scam. Just buy two twolittlefish reactors, dude. They are cheap.

 

[xxnonamexx]

Well the carbon in the bag in the sump I noticed makes the water more clearer. I am looking to get that dual media reactor and then I can place the carbon in one side and the phos media in the other the nitrates I just need to change the water.
LEDs are no good on a FOWLR? They don't need it super bright since its not a reef.

 

[MatthewScars]

Well the carbon in the bag in the sump I noticed makes the water more clearer.

Did you actually read what I said and came back with this stupid reply? Or do you not fully comprehend English?

LEDs are no good on a FOWLR? They don't need it super bright since its not a reef.

LED on a Fish only? Dude, these fish would be happy with 120 watt light bulbs on a timer.

So it is true, you can not comprehend English. I honestly only feel bad for your fish. Good luck to them.

 

[xxnonamexx]

Settle down no reason to flip out "DUDE" I understand you stated the carbon isn't fully working since its just a media bag in the sump but I will put it in a reactor when I make the move Do you comprehend? 120 watt light bulb is pretty bright LED bulbs are much dimmer so your sentence is saying the fish will be happier with higher wattage. Yet You need higher wattage for a reef and not just to see fish in a FOWLR.

 

[fritz]

The more light you add. the more potential there is for photosynthesis to occur. Since the only organisms in your tank that can make use of it is algae, the more light the more algae.

What's wrong with picking up a normal output bulb made for a reef or fowlr tank? You're making something complicated that isn't

Could you add macro algae? sure wouldn't hurt
Can you add an RO/DI? Sure wouldn't hurt
Can you run carbon and Phosban in a reactor? Sure wouldn't hurt

If you just want to not have as much algae just have your lights on when you're home in the morning and a few hours when you're home at night. Bam, less light=less algae. If you downgrade to an appropriate light for a FOWLR tank you'll have even less algae. Your choices are to make your tank simpler or more complicated. Both will work.