reoccurring ICK problem

[marrone]

Go over to Cali_reef, look at his FOWLR tank which has about 35 fish. Look at the one angel that has ich all over it and then look at all the other fish with no signs of ich showing. Then explain how your positive none of the other fish have ich because they are not showing symptoms (which the white spots are).

Or explain how ich can be in a tank, go away for months, and come back later with no new introduction of anything.

It's very easy to explain, Cali_reef has ich in his tank and some of the fish are either immuned to it which others aren't or are less than some others. Some show only some of the symptoms while others show a lot more, and white spots aren't the only sign of ich, if that's what Cali_reef even has. His fish probably get stressed out and at that point they aren't able to fight off the ich and it takes over the fish more and you start to see spot on the body of the fish. That why your seeing outbreaks every so often.

He did say in his post that his fish do come down with it from time to time, during temperature swings and when he adds new fish. So you can see some of this is bought on by stress or changing conditions.

Also just because some of his fish have ich doesn't mean all his fish do. There are many fish that are immune to the ich, and actually go through wipe outs in the tank and are the only fish left and never come down with ich. By going through a QT period of 2 - 4 weeks you should be able to see if a fish has some thing and then treaty it.

 

[cali_reef]

Marrone, I am certain I have Ich.... Most of my fish gets it if my tank temp have a 4'F swing, the white spot will disappear after a week or two for most fish.

I don't think you can get rid of Ich "easily", just too many ways for it to come back even if you do.

I treat all my newly acquired fish with copper while it is being acclimated, 2-3 X of the recommended dosage initially in a 5 gallon bucket, the dosage gets diluted as more water is being put in during the 1-4 hour acclimation process. Copper overdose will kill fish, I find 3x is the most they will tolerate, at 5X I had chromis dropping dead within the first hour.

 

[pmui]

this is a very touchy subject.
Marrone is right, treat the disease in the QT tank when it appears. Also be very careful about the dosage of copper used, as it will kill the fish at high levels.

Ink: at this point we know all your fish will carry some form of ich. The fish may not show any symptoms but it is there. IMHO.: I would pull all the fish if possible and QT and treat with copper. Most likely the tank will have ick eggs, this is a whole other matter. you must clean the tank or make the ick go thorugh it's life cycle w/o a host therfore killing it.

Peter

 

[marrone]

Getting rid of ich can be very hard and it some case even copper doesn't have an effect on it, even very high doses that will practically kill everything in the tank some times don't do the trick. A lot of people get ich and go through "wipe out" with just one of a couple of fish making it. Some times it just runs it coarse and the fish left are immuned against it and then it seems to just go away.

Some times you need to bit the bullet and treat the whole tank with copper, which with a lot of rock and if the tank is large can take a lot of copper to reach the right level. I've used Copper Power in the past as it lets you treat at very high levels and doesn't have any effect on the fish, unlike other coppers that do.

The debate still goes on if you can truly get rid of ich from your fish, even with high doses of copper or hyposaltity.

 

[kimoyo]

I just don't agree with some of you.

I still don't see any evidence that cupramine (for example) will hurt the fish at the levels suggested to kill ich. Yes it can hurt/kill the fish as an overdose but so can a lot of things. Many stores/wholesalers have copper in their fish tanks. Steven Pro treats all incoming tangs with copper regardless of symptoms (I will try to find the thread tonight). Ich can easily kill the fish and all we are talking about is treating the fish for 7 days (the max time it will take the ich to drop off the fish). Ich is easily the most prevalent fish parasite in hobbyist tanks and we as a hobby lose many fish (and hobbyist) to this parasite.

Even if you quarantine your fish for a month there is still a chance that the fish is carrying the parasite and either not showing symptoms or has a very small infestation. For me the small amount of time these fish are exposed to copper is worth not introducing and/or curing the fish of this potential parasite.

Warren (Pecan2phat) had been dealing with the ich for a while when I first introduced it to my tank late last year. Two weeks in a qt with cupramine and I haven't had any issues since. Warren's done a lot except copper and hes still battling and losing fish to ich. I lost two fish to ich and thats all I'm willing to lose.

Marrone, its all gravy between us for me.

 

[marrone]

Many store have not only copper in their system but other stuff but usually at low level. This will kill just the slightest out breaks, they don't have it at levels high enough to stop ich or other diseases in most cases, which you see quite often when a store gets in a shippment of fish that has some thing. You need to remember that these place work in high volume and most don't QT any of their fish. So they treat the water but still they have outbreaks. They also do lose some fish from the copper or other things in the water but it's a chance that some are willing to take to protect their overall system. Some Wholesalers and transhippers may have it at higher levels but they also have high volume and great amount of loses.

Also you should treat ich for anywhere from 2-4 weeks and after that period if it's still there treat even longer, which is needed as in a lot of cases it can be hard to kill off the ich.

In a 4 week period you should be able to observe your fish well enough to know if it has some thing and if you suspect it may QT even longer or start to treat. There isn't anything wrong with treating you just need to be sure what you have and then treat for it. It is better to have the fish die in QT than in your main tank, reguardless even if the fish is very expensive. I know this maybe tough on some people but you should be more worried about you main tank than the fish in QT.

Paul nothing against Steve Pro but there are a lot of people out there who have a lot of experience and don't get the accolades that Steve or others get because they don't have a web site forum or have written a book. There where a lot of people like this on RC in the fish forum and over the years many just moved on, which was truly a shame. So don't get so caught up in what some one like Steve may say.

 

[marrone]

As for Warren I think he may need to cut back on some fish, as that could be the problem, or start a treatment of copper.

 

[fritz]

The only sure fire way to 100% get rid of ich (as it has worked for me) is two part:

1. Prevent it from entering in the first place
(or skip to part two)

2. Remove everything that can get ich and put them in tubs / tanks.
If you remove everything except inverts & corals the ich have no hosts. Put all the fish into tubs or tanks if you have enough. Heat them to speed up the life cycle of the fish. At this point I treat with copper for 40 days. Some people go the low slainity route. After 40 days of warm display tanks with no hosts and carefully measured copper in the tubs all traces of ich are gone. Now you can reaclimate the fish and add them back in. Down side of course is that you've copper contaminated a lot of equipment but the alternative is step "#1"

I've made this mistake and I'm dumb enough to repeat it. So far I've been lucky playing Russian Roulette. Honestly if I wasn't such a moron I would have a QT tank where I'd keep new animals for a month to get them eating and make sure that they don't have any cuminicble disease. My wife won't let me have another tank so I gamble.

I've had to use step "2" twice in my life and it has worked 100% each time. Your pod population also goes NUTS without any predators for 40 days.

 

[inline6]

Hey Guys,
Back to my ick problem.
Haven't seen any signs ick for 15-16 days now.
Is it safe to say that my tank is relatively ick free?

 

[Tonyscoots84]

I've tried ginger extract

pecan if im correct ginger does the same thing to our reefs as sugar and vodka.... i just thought i let u no...

 

[Tonyscoots84]

Hey Guys,
Back to my ick problem.
Haven't seen any signs ick for 15-16 days now.
Is it safe to say that my tank is relatively ick free?

could possibly be but not deff. any stress ur fish have could easily trigger the ich to come back...

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Hey Guys,
Back to my ick problem.
Haven't seen any signs ick for 15-16 days now.
Is it safe to say that my tank is relatively ick free?

NO!!!!!

Some ick will last 28 days. Just 2 more weeks. You can do it. Wait 2 more weeks.

 

[samster]

lols i was wondering if u guys see iCk eggs on the glass? like after a break out? they look like like circluar eggs that are clear with alil white dot in the middle? i belive its iCk eggs correct me if im wrong -=) but yea im currenty fightin icK again -=T and and its been over 6 weeks i think i started on the april 1st but i decided to wait till mabe june or somthing befor ei throw the fish back in its annoyin to keep tkain them in and out of display and i tried to leave them and hope they get immune to it but thens my hippo was so ick invested it covered his eyes n crapP~ so i had to take them out -=T

 

[Deanos]

pecan if im correct ginger does the same thing to our reefs as sugar and vodka.... i just thought i let u no...

Where did you get this information? I've never heard the connection :scratch:

 

[marrone]

pecan if im correct ginger does the same thing to our reefs as sugar and vodka.... i just thought i let u no...

People us Ginger just like they use Garlic. It's suppose to help the fish immune system and help it fight off ich.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

it was on reef central on a thread that someone wanted to dose sugar

 

[marrone]

There are a lot of threads on RC about people using ginger to fight off ich. Some people have had good results, similar to using garlic.

 

[Deanos]

it was on reef central on a thread that someone wanted to dose sugar

This thread? :scratch: It's the only one I found with any relevance, with sugar and ginger mentioned. All the other references to ginger I found on Reef Central, were in reference to fighting disease.

See how easy it is to spread misinformation :smash:

 

[pmui]

what's with the spices....? why not try ginko or echineaha is all theories. The only thing proven to kill and eradicate Ick is Copper (period). nothing in the market really works. Samster & inline6 you should give a full treatment of copper to make sure your fish is not re-infested with ick. One other problem i see is your display tank, it's most likely infested with tomite or ick cycst that can live a very long time. You have to figure out how you want to eradicate that problem. I can proposed (2): a) copper but it will kill your inverts. b) Leave the display w/o any fish for 3mo. at around 80F. this will end all the life cycle of the ick within the tank. that's my opinion. Good luck.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

what's with the spices....? why not try ginko or echineaha is all theories. The only thing proven to kill and eradicate Ick is Copper (period). nothing in the market really works. Samster & inline6 you should give a full treatment of copper to make sure your fish is not re-infested with ick. One other problem i see is your display tank, it's most likely infested with tomite or ick cycst that can live a very long time. You have to figure out how you want to eradicate that problem. I can proposed (2): a) copper but it will kill your inverts. b) Leave the display w/o any fish for 3mo. at around 80F. this will end all the life cycle of the ick within the tank. that's my opinion. Good luck.

Combine herm's and my treatments for ick you should be OK.

Copper for sure kills ICK but just remember to do it carefully not to kill your fish as well. Druing treatment, you should be watching your fish periodically and when the copper bath is done(follow direction of the drug), put them back to low salinity QT tank. Leave your display fishless for a month should be enough. Putting your fish out of the main tank for 3 months may be a little stressful for them unless your QT is as well equiped.

Copper is still the best drug against ick but must administered with caution.

Remind you this is only observation.
(still observation only despite I have seen this happened couple times)

I found a patient's clown fish was infested with ick and then when an gbta was introduced to the tank, the clown rub itself with the anemone day and night and then the fish lost ALL the ick patches and regain appetite the next day. The fish seems completely healed from ick since then.