Has anyone ever used a bare bottom fuge with live rock? i currently have a half inch sand bed which is starting to get covered with algae and my nitrate as 10ppm whereas before they were zero. granted this a brand new fuge, but i am thinking the sand bed has something to do with this as bubbles are coming up from the sand through the algae film. My new idea for a fuge would be bare with live rock mound with a ton of xenia's for nutrtient export. I know people use chaeto but im finding alot of dietrus getting trapped in there. If anyone can offer advice that would be great.
bare vs deep sand fuge
- Thread starter GQ22
- Start date
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- 11756
Well my HOB is BB with a few pieces of a rubble on the bottom to help anchor the macros. When I had sand in there it was taken over by cyano, i couldnt see inside it from even the top. Now since changing tanks I went to BB with the fuge and things in there are alot better. I like cheato, seems to be working for me. Flow through my fuge is really slow too, getting some nice coralline this time tho. 
- Location
- Ossining, NY
I agree with Jose, I wuld go deep sand.
Here's my thinking (thanks Solbby). I am going with a not-so-deep sandbed in the display tank and a very deep sand bed in the fuge. This will give me the opportunity to remove the fuge sand if it goes bad. A not-so-deep sandbed in the display tank will be turned enuogh by the critters. I think this is going to be a good approach. Also, if you have previously cultured sand, that would be best to start with.
Of course, water changes also work wonders.
House
Here's my thinking (thanks Solbby). I am going with a not-so-deep sandbed in the display tank and a very deep sand bed in the fuge. This will give me the opportunity to remove the fuge sand if it goes bad. A not-so-deep sandbed in the display tank will be turned enuogh by the critters. I think this is going to be a good approach. Also, if you have previously cultured sand, that would be best to start with.
Of course, water changes also work wonders.
House
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- 11756
I like the way you guys think and like the way i think less . I just went BB in this one cause its so small I guess it just went bad quick cause of the uncommonly low flow. I like the way Jim explained it. With the new setup I'm going to do that.
. I just went BB in this one cause its so small I guess it just went bad quick cause of the uncommonly low flow. I like the way Jim explained it. With the new setup I'm going to do that. i've had a cyano outbreak or two in the past year since setting up my tank.at first i think it just may have been part of the cycle, the latter ones i think was due to overfeeding and lighting problems.i do have cyano now, here and there in the tank(unnoticeable), but i think everyone does.it's part of the tank life.i did treat with chemi clean? once and it was a great quick fix.i believe ron shimmek?? on reef central is the great defender of deep sand beds, he has written some articles with great explanations on how DSB work.read up....
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- The Big City
When I just upgrade my tank I changed over from a DSB in the main tank to about only 1" or so. In the sump, which is part refug I have a DSB in there. I have enough worms and critters in the main tank to move the sand around. In the refug I have pods and things that move the sand around also. I never had a problem with the DSB in the main tank but was always worried that stuff would get trapped and something digging in the sand would release a pocket of something bad.
As for Cyano it seems to come and go, if you look on RC people, who have had tanks up for years, all of a sudden get an outbreak of Cyano just out of the blue sometimes.
As for Cyano it seems to come and go, if you look on RC people, who have had tanks up for years, all of a sudden get an outbreak of Cyano just out of the blue sometimes.
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- 11756
Its so confusing. Does it really come down to your preference? I like the SB because I like the look of it. Starboard doesnt look bad but its not realistic IMO. Thats why I decided on the SD, Thanks Jose!!!
I know with the BB you can have way more flow, but how do you know when enough flow is enough?
I know with the BB you can have way more flow, but how do you know when enough flow is enough?
- Location
- The Big City
DSB work but so do BB tank alot of it does come down to what your preference is.
Just like all the fads and trends in the hobby something get hot, and everyone starts to do it, and then some one else comes along with something else and everyone starts to jump off the bandwagon. There are plenty of people running DSB for years without any problems, mine was up for a # of years and it worked fine before I changed the tank over. There are even people still using plummes(sp) in their tanks and have great results.
I have a tank that being running since 1987 and it was setup as a reef tank and back then you place just a fine layer of sand or crushed coral on the bottom, kinda of like what alot of people are doing now.
Just like all the fads and trends in the hobby something get hot, and everyone starts to do it, and then some one else comes along with something else and everyone starts to jump off the bandwagon. There are plenty of people running DSB for years without any problems, mine was up for a # of years and it worked fine before I changed the tank over. There are even people still using plummes(sp) in their tanks and have great results.
I have a tank that being running since 1987 and it was setup as a reef tank and back then you place just a fine layer of sand or crushed coral on the bottom, kinda of like what alot of people are doing now.
- Location
- 11756
Michael, I'm gonna do that same thing that you guys did with a shallow SB in the main tank and a DSB in the fuge. The way I get the benefits of the DSB but still get to have sand in the tank.
Here is my experience with this.
I put together a 55g with a very shallow sandbed & discovered that it was the worst thing that I could do. I did not get the benefit of a DSB nor the benefits of a BB. Deitrus would accumulate & build up very quickly, with no easy way to remove the particulates. Over 2-3 months I had a bad case of cyano. I did weekly water changes, but nothing would solve it. I had a fuge with a DSB connected & when I broke this up I noticed so much crap in the DSB. The water looked very cloudy when the sand was moved.
When I moved everything over to a 90g I had decided to go BB with a BB sump. I have not seen any cyano, do water changes every 3-4 weeks, & have tons of coralline growth.
Also, based upon what I have seen from experience (& others systems) I have come to conclude this:
-adding chaeto to your fuges does not cause your nitrates or nitrites to drop, not significantly anyway. Maybe other macros, such as caulerpa, might do a better job? If anything, your fuge might add to nutrient build up, due to all the critters that are there. A fuge is great for feeding your tank!
-biting my tongue on this one. The cleanup crew that you have added is more of a poop crew. The pressure that they put on your bio load outweighs the advantage.
-best thing that you can add to benefit your system is a clam. The more clams the merrier, up until the point your system can no longer support clams. If skimmers were efficient then mother nature would have invented a bubbling clam.
[ May 26, 2005, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: FastUno ]
I put together a 55g with a very shallow sandbed & discovered that it was the worst thing that I could do. I did not get the benefit of a DSB nor the benefits of a BB. Deitrus would accumulate & build up very quickly, with no easy way to remove the particulates. Over 2-3 months I had a bad case of cyano. I did weekly water changes, but nothing would solve it. I had a fuge with a DSB connected & when I broke this up I noticed so much crap in the DSB. The water looked very cloudy when the sand was moved.
When I moved everything over to a 90g I had decided to go BB with a BB sump. I have not seen any cyano, do water changes every 3-4 weeks, & have tons of coralline growth.
Also, based upon what I have seen from experience (& others systems) I have come to conclude this:
-adding chaeto to your fuges does not cause your nitrates or nitrites to drop, not significantly anyway. Maybe other macros, such as caulerpa, might do a better job? If anything, your fuge might add to nutrient build up, due to all the critters that are there. A fuge is great for feeding your tank!
-biting my tongue on this one. The cleanup crew that you have added is more of a poop crew. The pressure that they put on your bio load outweighs the advantage.
-best thing that you can add to benefit your system is a clam. The more clams the merrier, up until the point your system can no longer support clams. If skimmers were efficient then mother nature would have invented a bubbling clam.
[ May 26, 2005, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: FastUno ]
- Location
- 11756
Fast why a clam?
Kris
Kris
- Location
- The Big City
Actually when I added a refug to my tank I notice a great improvement in my overall levels, nitrates alot lower, and my corals seems to do alot better. I did, and still do, have different type of micro plants in my refug.
When I broke down my 35 hex the DSB didn't have any bad smell to it and was pretty clean. I'm not sure not that I have a much smaller SB in my tank I'll lose some of the benefit of the DSB. I think for a DSB to work correct you need the right critters to move around the sand and not eat the good things in the sand. Will you get the same results with a much small SB, having the same critters, I'm not sure yet but after about 3 months or so my tank seems fine.
When I broke down my 35 hex the DSB didn't have any bad smell to it and was pretty clean. I'm not sure not that I have a much smaller SB in my tank I'll lose some of the benefit of the DSB. I think for a DSB to work correct you need the right critters to move around the sand and not eat the good things in the sand. Will you get the same results with a much small SB, having the same critters, I'm not sure yet but after about 3 months or so my tank seems fine.
Clams are filter feeders. Try putting a clam in a container of water & add somy phyto, cyclo, whatever else you want. You will notice that in a very short time, the water will be clear.
If a clam can do this in a smaller container, imagine what they can do in your tank over a period of time. I have been paying attention & it seems that those individuals who have clams in their tank seem to have a more successful system. Less worries & equipment (i.e. more powerful skimmer).
I agree about the DSB, you need some good movement by critters. In this case the critters would come very handy, the better they are at moving only the top layer of sand, the better your system will be.
If a clam can do this in a smaller container, imagine what they can do in your tank over a period of time. I have been paying attention & it seems that those individuals who have clams in their tank seem to have a more successful system. Less worries & equipment (i.e. more powerful skimmer).
I agree about the DSB, you need some good movement by critters. In this case the critters would come very handy, the better they are at moving only the top layer of sand, the better your system will be.
- Location
- 11756
You could write a book on that if it's true and be remembered in the reef world forever.
That makes sense. When my system is ready for a clam I'll give it a shot.
Thanks for the info buddy.
-Kris
That makes sense. When my system is ready for a clam I'll give it a shot.
Thanks for the info buddy.
-Kris
Some observations that I have noticed after placing my clam in for the first time.
1-my water looked like I had done a water change after a few hours
2-tank lights appeared surprisingly brighter to me
3-my skimmer was skimming less
4-corals appeared a notch healthier (could just be my dillusional bias)?
1-my water looked like I had done a water change after a few hours
2-tank lights appeared surprisingly brighter to me
3-my skimmer was skimming less
4-corals appeared a notch healthier (could just be my dillusional bias)?
Xenia doesn't remove enough nutrients to make an impact on your nitrates or phosphates. My best advice to you would be to skip the sandbed sponges and get a good skimmer......it's that simple.
I see a lot of reefers fumble with ideas with refugiums, mangroves, DSBs, live rock bins etc... These will work to some extent but have a MAJOR flaw. At some point nutrients will back up into your system (I've experienced this). This doesn't happen with a skimmer unless you pour the collection cup back into the tank
[ May 26, 2005, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: jackson6745 ]
Yes, thank you Jackson.
Do a BB sump w/a good skimmer. I have the Deltec 600, which is much better than the Remora I used to have. Overskimming is one of the major keys to success. I have seen this & have heard from countless senior reefers. BB sump allows you to clean up anything that may spill over & get trapped in there.
Skip the fuge, unless you really need to feed your tank. That would be the only reason why I would keep one. I know this one dude who had 1000g system with a huge 120g fuge & countless macros & micro life & his nitrates were at 50ppm.
Don't forget the clams! Plus they look so darn pretty.
Do a BB sump w/a good skimmer. I have the Deltec 600, which is much better than the Remora I used to have. Overskimming is one of the major keys to success. I have seen this & have heard from countless senior reefers. BB sump allows you to clean up anything that may spill over & get trapped in there.
Skip the fuge, unless you really need to feed your tank. That would be the only reason why I would keep one. I know this one dude who had 1000g system with a huge 120g fuge & countless macros & micro life & his nitrates were at 50ppm.
Don't forget the clams! Plus they look so darn pretty.
- Location
- 11756
So basically NO sand, HUGE skimmer, NICE clam and the tank is set. Should we add huge flow to that to keep that dirt suspended?
my sump has 2 sections. one has a DSB and one is barebottom. When i do water changes (once a month on avg) i siphon out of the BB and suck out any junk that may have settled there.
my chaeto grows like crazy and does a good job.
no skimmer in my set-up btw.
my chaeto grows like crazy and does a good job.
no skimmer in my set-up btw.
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