I have 30 gallon reef tank no sump set up for more than 3 years , I m setting up a new 140 with 50 gallon sump.. Im using 100 % cured rock from Garf, there grunge live sand Plenium bed , I'm going to put a couple of rocks from from the 30 into the 140 ,when I first set it up , eventullay the whole tank, I just did a water change in the 30 today did a 7.5 gallon change ,I'm saving the water in buckets with a heater and a power head in there. Going to put the 7.5 gallon in the new tank next week when the rock arrives along with some rock from the 30, ? when can i put the whole tank in the 140 , Or can i put the whole 30 plus the 7.5 now with the 50 lbs of rock in there..what would be the quickest way?
setting up new tank question?
- Thread starter jhart
- Start date
- Location
- Howell, NJ
u might want to wait a lil while cause ur getting the rocks shipped which means if there live there will be some die off which will give you somewhat of a cycle.... once u see that there is no ammonia, nitrites and low nitrates and ur levels are what u want them at i personally would go ahead and add the rocks from the smaller tank wait a lil longer and then add whateva else u had such as livestock and u should be good..
y would u add the water n e wayz from the smaller tank... nothin that important in the water, the live rock is the key
y would u add the water n e wayz from the smaller tank... nothin that important in the water, the live rock is the key
The rock can be 100% cured, but if the rock is not shipped in water.....there will be some "die-off."
Re-using water from your 30 is not doing much.
I say run your 140 with freshly made saltwater & add your new rock in there. Check your parameters & do water changes as necessary.
Add the live-stock from your 30 when everything is stable.
Good luck~
Re-using water from your 30 is not doing much.
I say run your 140 with freshly made saltwater & add your new rock in there. Check your parameters & do water changes as necessary.
Add the live-stock from your 30 when everything is stable.
Good luck~
there will always be die off I have a 24 g nano with a with about 30lbs of rock I bought the rock live sand waited for the spike to go away about a week then started adding things.....I guess i dont follow all the rules but thing are going well running for a year one thing i would say go to ebay get an ro system if you start with good water you are one step ahead!
good luck!
good luck!
- Location
- The Big City
This isn't live rock but made rock out of aragocrete by Garf. When jhart said it's "Cured" he means that the rock is finish and has been soaked long enough so that once you place it in your tank it will be fine and not effect anything, like Ph.jhart said:
Basically all you should have to do it place the Garf grunch in the tank and put in the aragocrete rock on top of it and then fill the tank up. Since you plan on transferring all the LR from the 30gal into the 140gal tank anyway, I would move everything in the beginng, including what ever water you can in the 140gal. That way if you have any died off, from the old LR, it will happen in the beginning as you tank cycles, which should be small as the Garf grunge is surpose to make the cycle very short.
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- Location
- The Big City
Between the size of the new tank, from a 30gal to a 140gal + 50gal sump, and the rock being pretty old, 3 years, he shouldn't have much die off if he places it right into the tank. He may see a small spike but it shouldn't be that bad. The Garf Grunch will help with the bacteria and mostly likey take care of the spike. He shouldn't have that big of a problem. I would probably keep the corals in a bucket for a couple of days until the tank readings are stable and then start to move them into the tank.
- Location
- Howell, NJ
marrone said:
marrone said:
Am I missing something?
Less than 30 gallons of water into a 190 gallon system isn't going to make a dent in it.
It's like starting from scratch again.
Wouldn't it be wise to start off the big set-up & let it run it's course, while keeping all the fish & corals in the 30 & make the change when it's completely cyclyed (no matter how small it is)?
- Location
- The Big City
If the 30gal tank is running fine there isn't any reason not to use the water from it.
The aragocrete rock isn't alive and th Garf Grunch isn't going to cause much if any of a spike in the tank, actually the aragocrete rock will asorb the bacteria from the Grunch. So you really don't have much live matter in the tank to start with. If you place the LR from the old tank into the new tank you should have very little die off and you shouldn't see hardly any of a cycle at all. The tank actually should be really ready to go.
You need to remember if you wait until the tank cycles and then add the rock you're going to get a small spike, so you may as well add the rock in the begining and get the small spike, if any, out of the way.
The aragocrete rock isn't alive and th Garf Grunch isn't going to cause much if any of a spike in the tank, actually the aragocrete rock will asorb the bacteria from the Grunch. So you really don't have much live matter in the tank to start with. If you place the LR from the old tank into the new tank you should have very little die off and you shouldn't see hardly any of a cycle at all. The tank actually should be really ready to go.
You need to remember if you wait until the tank cycles and then add the rock you're going to get a small spike, so you may as well add the rock in the begining and get the small spike, if any, out of the way.
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Well, I don't know anything about "grunge", so maybe it's some new breakthrough product that eliminates the cycle process.
This should be mentioned to everyone setting up a new tank.
Yes, the water from the 30 gal should be added......but that's not doing much, if anything at all.
Regarding the spike from the live rock from the 30 gal:
How many pounds can really be in that small of a tank & would that amount really impact 190 gallons of water?
How much "die-off" could there possibly be, from a distance......let's say:
room to room?
All I'm trying to say is that there's not enough bio-load or bacteria to support the fish or corals, by just adding them to a fresh new set-up, that large.
Unless grunge handles that.
This should be mentioned to everyone setting up a new tank.
Yes, the water from the 30 gal should be added......but that's not doing much, if anything at all.
Regarding the spike from the live rock from the 30 gal:
How many pounds can really be in that small of a tank & would that amount really impact 190 gallons of water?
How much "die-off" could there possibly be, from a distance......let's say:
room to room?
All I'm trying to say is that there's not enough bio-load or bacteria to support the fish or corals, by just adding them to a fresh new set-up, that large.
Unless grunge handles that.
- Location
- The Big City
Well the Grunge isn't for everyone as it's a sand bed loaded with live things. It's part of the Garf way of setting up a tank and yes it does work. It doesn't elminate the cycle but it does speed it up. The thing is you need to have a sand bed, which a lot of people don't want to have now. I think Ronen actually set his tank up that way.
Adding the water from the 30gal isn't doing much but if the tank is fine, low nitrates, then it doesn't hurt to use it.
On the LR he said he had 50lbs and it's been in the tank for 3 years. It's possible he could have little or no die off from just the short move. The think is there maybe some things growing on the rock, like sponges, that will die once they're removed from the water. So you don't really know until you move it and see. Some people setup tanks and use LR that is fully cured, that has been in some one else tank for a long time, and they never see any spike or cycle at all. In a tank that size if he has a small cycle, from the LR, it should be that big of a problem.
Your right on the bio-load being to much for that size tank and he is going to need much more LR than the 50lbs he has. That also why he really needs to get the 50lbs into the tank in the beginning. The aragocrete rock and Grunch will help make up the rest.
What is suppose to happen is that the aragocrete rock will absorb the bacteria from the Grunge and become LR. This will become his bacteria, along with the other LR, that will support his tank. So what he should really do is move the LR, from the 30gal, into the tank with the aragocrete rock and grunch and place the corals in a bucket, or maybe give them to some one, and then check his tank after a couple of days and see if the tank is ok. At that point he can start to add the corals back.
Adding the water from the 30gal isn't doing much but if the tank is fine, low nitrates, then it doesn't hurt to use it.
On the LR he said he had 50lbs and it's been in the tank for 3 years. It's possible he could have little or no die off from just the short move. The think is there maybe some things growing on the rock, like sponges, that will die once they're removed from the water. So you don't really know until you move it and see. Some people setup tanks and use LR that is fully cured, that has been in some one else tank for a long time, and they never see any spike or cycle at all. In a tank that size if he has a small cycle, from the LR, it should be that big of a problem.
Your right on the bio-load being to much for that size tank and he is going to need much more LR than the 50lbs he has. That also why he really needs to get the 50lbs into the tank in the beginning. The aragocrete rock and Grunch will help make up the rest.
What is suppose to happen is that the aragocrete rock will absorb the bacteria from the Grunge and become LR. This will become his bacteria, along with the other LR, that will support his tank. So what he should really do is move the LR, from the 30gal, into the tank with the aragocrete rock and grunch and place the corals in a bucket, or maybe give them to some one, and then check his tank after a couple of days and see if the tank is ok. At that point he can start to add the corals back.
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Thanks marrone
Finally someone who understands The Garf Method, I spoke with Sally Joe on the phone many times with over 60 tanks running she has some of the nicest corals in the world, My tank and three of my friends tanks are all done the garf way , she says it perfect ( Bullet proof Reef ), she adds corals and fish in her tanks after a couple of day, by using water from her other sytems and seeding her tank with the grunge, and only use man made rock , so there is no die off what so ever...
I have only set these tanks up from scratch, using rock from dr mac and sons, having the rock cycle for 3 - 4 weeks..then about 6 - 8 weeks before i add fish, the 140 will be 100 % man made rock and only the 50lbs from my 30, as I know there is no un wanted hitchikers and other troublesome issuses, with live rock from my 30..
I just wanted to know if anyone has done a system added cured rock, allready cycled, and added livestock asap...
Just trying to add my other tank in the 140 without lossing anything
Finally someone who understands The Garf Method, I spoke with Sally Joe on the phone many times with over 60 tanks running she has some of the nicest corals in the world, My tank and three of my friends tanks are all done the garf way , she says it perfect ( Bullet proof Reef ), she adds corals and fish in her tanks after a couple of day, by using water from her other sytems and seeding her tank with the grunge, and only use man made rock , so there is no die off what so ever...
I have only set these tanks up from scratch, using rock from dr mac and sons, having the rock cycle for 3 - 4 weeks..then about 6 - 8 weeks before i add fish, the 140 will be 100 % man made rock and only the 50lbs from my 30, as I know there is no un wanted hitchikers and other troublesome issuses, with live rock from my 30..
I just wanted to know if anyone has done a system added cured rock, allready cycled, and added livestock asap...
Just trying to add my other tank in the 140 without lossing anything
- Location
- The Big City
I do understands The Garf Method but have never used it myself. I do know a # if people who have used it and have gotten good results. On RC it's not considered a good method and a # of people have actually questioned it.
if i add tye 50 lbs of rock from the 30 and the water i been saving from the water changes leave the coral in the tank with the water thats in there now only add the rock to the 140 then in a couple of days add the livestock and the then the water .. or just dump it all from the beginging along with the live stock...
- Location
- Ossining, NY
Jhart,
I did the same thing with my 180, and yes i was able to put in animals right away, and yes things were alive and relatively healthy - but it took the better part of a year to get my tank loking the way it does now - Dareal will attest to it, in the past 6 months my tank has exploded.
I started with 60% fully encrusted live rock from my 92 corner and added 40% cured base rock along with a fuge seeded with GARF Grunge, I also put in brand new southdown and seeded that wit sane from my 92 - works and pds everywhere.
I guess what I am saying is what Phil is saying and what MArrone is saying - while you CAN successfully add animals shortly after you add your rock etc using the GARF method, it won't be until at least 5-8 months where you'll really start to see a healthy reef - by healthy I mean exquisite colors, remarkable growth and near pefect conditions.
JMO
House
I did the same thing with my 180, and yes i was able to put in animals right away, and yes things were alive and relatively healthy - but it took the better part of a year to get my tank loking the way it does now - Dareal will attest to it, in the past 6 months my tank has exploded.
I started with 60% fully encrusted live rock from my 92 corner and added 40% cured base rock along with a fuge seeded with GARF Grunge, I also put in brand new southdown and seeded that wit sane from my 92 - works and pds everywhere.
I guess what I am saying is what Phil is saying and what MArrone is saying - while you CAN successfully add animals shortly after you add your rock etc using the GARF method, it won't be until at least 5-8 months where you'll really start to see a healthy reef - by healthy I mean exquisite colors, remarkable growth and near pefect conditions.
JMO
House
- Location
- The Big City
jhart said:
I would usually wait a couple of days and see if the cured rock will have some die off on it, which may cause a spike in the tank. Since the amount of LR that you're adding is very small it shouldn't be a problem but I would still wait a couple of days before adding any corals just to be sure.
When I transfer over my 35 to my 58 I move everything over without any problems. I then cured rock and slowly added it to the tank and didn't have anything die.
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