My father in law is busting my chops for my new build. The tank is around 255 g and the sump might add an additional 40-50g of water. The tank will be on my first floor pretty much in the middle of the house and it will positioned across 5-6 Floor joists that are 2x10. Also my house has only one steal beam that runs across the whole house and the tank will be 1'-2' away from it and almost right underneath a steal column. Will it hold the weight or do I need to reinforce the joists? Thanks.
Weight load
- Thread starter crox99
- Start date
- Location
- Brooklyn
I would reinforce just in case (not an expert opinion!). any chance you can put it closer to the steel beam?
How long is the tank that it will be over 5-6 joists?
Underneath a steel column?
I've had structural engineers to my home twice for different tank setups. (300g and 450g) and both times was advised to make changes... ' sistering joists' for the 300, and extra columns and beam for the 450.
IMO, you should sister (double) the joists...300g of water/LR/LS/tank/equipment and a couple of people standing there admiring the tank is equal to a car, standing on its bumper in that area!...would you prefer to keep it 'parked' upstairs?
The tank is 72x30x27. The problem is that the basement is fully finished. I believe that every 5-6 joists that they are already double. I would hate to open the ceiling in the basement to do all of that additional work.....Also that's the closest that I can get to the steal beam. Can anyone refer me to a structural engineer? Thanks.
- Location
- Dingmans ferry PA
All i know is when i do my 180 on my first floor i will be sistering the floor joists and adding 2 4x4s as columns. better safe then sorry
- Location
- Kings Park, NY
You have to ask yourself what is more work? Opening the ceiling to possibly reinforce what is there or cleaning up after the tank winds up possibly in the basement? Unless you have original prints available showing you that there is in fact sistered 2x10's down there the engineer will probably not sign off on anything without seeing it.
Lets round up to 300 gallons of water. Roughly 2400 lbs not including the weight of the tank, sump, stand etc. Now lets add another roughly 200 lbs of rock and 150 lbs of sand. Get where I'm going with this
Lets round up to 300 gallons of water. Roughly 2400 lbs not including the weight of the tank, sump, stand etc. Now lets add another roughly 200 lbs of rock and 150 lbs of sand. Get where I'm going with this
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So it would be on 4 or 5 joists if they're 16" on center...
not really familiar with 'every 5-6 joists' being doubled
you can check with a stud finder if some beams are doubled. their is also a formula for weight per sq ft, depending on dimensions of floor beams, if they are doubled, span, sub floor and floor. i had a book with that info but lost it. my 150 is running parallel with the joists. so i doubled up on some and their was a closet wall under it, so i reinforced it so its load bearing wall. i would speak with an engineer to see what the floor can hold before tearing down the ceiling.
- Location
- NY
The odds are in your favor that your tank wouldn't crash through the floor. That isn't really the main concern. However, I've seen MUCH smaller tanks situated on stable floors that 'bounce' when you walk by. That extra movement/bounce can cause stress on the tank that is not good.
As stated by others, it is much less expensive and prudent to open the basement ceiling beforehand and do the necessary structural improvements before any problems arise as opposed to after the fact. A structural engineer can obviously do the required calculations and determine exactly what needs to be done.
Sistering joists, perpendicular girders and lally columns (structural posts) are the most likely course of action.
Russ
As stated by others, it is much less expensive and prudent to open the basement ceiling beforehand and do the necessary structural improvements before any problems arise as opposed to after the fact. A structural engineer can obviously do the required calculations and determine exactly what needs to be done.
Sistering joists, perpendicular girders and lally columns (structural posts) are the most likely course of action.
Russ
- Location
- NY
Hi Russ,
That's what an engineer told me that the joists will hold the weight but he suggested to put some blocks in between them so they won't twist.
Any contractors in my area that will open the ceiling and add the blocks? Thanks
IF YOUR GOING TO OPEN THE CEILING, I WOULD DOUBLE UP ON TH BEAMS, as long as its open. i can't see the blocks doing much.
- Location
- Bergen Cnty. New Jersey
The best way to go is what Russ mentioned, columns and perpendicular girders. Don't know what your basement is like but you could cut 2 one*one foot holes in the slab dig out about 2 feet (no need to worry about frost line in basement) pour cement, and place the columns on that.
As for sistering, it depends what is meant by sistering. Sistering when I work is just putting a joist next to an existing not contacting the 2 end supports, this whether you nail, screw, or bolt wont help much the joists will sag over time. Adding or doubling would be adding joists but having them on the 2 main supports. This can be very difficult to do depending on the amount of room you have to work. The colums is your best bet.
As for sistering, it depends what is meant by sistering. Sistering when I work is just putting a joist next to an existing not contacting the 2 end supports, this whether you nail, screw, or bolt wont help much the joists will sag over time. Adding or doubling would be adding joists but having them on the 2 main supports. This can be very difficult to do depending on the amount of room you have to work. The colums is your best bet.
- Location
- NY
Decorative basement columns:
https://www.google.com/search?q=dec...Y&biw=1366&bih=643&sei=ipZ6UeW8AoHi4AOWmYGAAQ
Check out the pix. They don't have to be ugly eyesores. AND, I highly recommend it for a tank that size. I personally would not, under any circumstance, put that volume system in my home without the precautions I mentioned above. It is a tremendous amount of weight and obviously a little water too
Be safe, do it right before you get started.
Russ
https://www.google.com/search?q=dec...Y&biw=1366&bih=643&sei=ipZ6UeW8AoHi4AOWmYGAAQ
Check out the pix. They don't have to be ugly eyesores. AND, I highly recommend it for a tank that size. I personally would not, under any circumstance, put that volume system in my home without the precautions I mentioned above. It is a tremendous amount of weight and obviously a little water too
Be safe, do it right before you get started.
Russ
- Location
- NY
Do you by any chance have the blueprints for the house? I'd love to see the first floor and basement prints.
I understand the tank is going to be sitting 1'-2' off the main girder and parallel to it. What you need to remember is that the girder was sized for the load it is currently carrying. Add over one ton (closer to 1.5 tons) to that load and the girder might be undersized.
In my professional opinion (and I was a GC building single family homes for a long time) you need to do some reinforcing. Another possible avenue could be running the sister joists as discussed, but add a flitch plate to it. This is a steel plate sandwiched between the two wooden joists.
Russ
I understand the tank is going to be sitting 1'-2' off the main girder and parallel to it. What you need to remember is that the girder was sized for the load it is currently carrying. Add over one ton (closer to 1.5 tons) to that load and the girder might be undersized.
In my professional opinion (and I was a GC building single family homes for a long time) you need to do some reinforcing. Another possible avenue could be running the sister joists as discussed, but add a flitch plate to it. This is a steel plate sandwiched between the two wooden joists.
Russ
- Location
- Rockville Centre LI
Hey sorry to wake this old thread up but anyone know a scructural engineer in NYC? I live in arverne queens. Long island should be fine as well.
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