A Tale of High Indoor CO2 and Declining pH
- Thread starter cybermeez
- Start date
- Location
- Nutley, NJ
There currently are very few options and most seem to have virtually no control. The ones I've found have either been for ponds or are only available on alibaba. I really don't trust the longevity of the ones on alibaba hence the reason for me trying to build my own.
Right now I'm working with a company the manufactures micro air/vacuum diaphragm pumps that can be controlled with either a PWM circuit or needle valves. These pumps have really good suction! I received my first pump yesterday but haven't had time to play with it other than test the amount of suction and pressure. I should have a better answer for you by the end of the weekend as to what it will take to build such a device. I'm excited about this mostly because this type of pump can be controlled much more so than a standard magnetic diagram pump.
In case you were wondering, here is a link to the alibaba one, http://m.alibaba.com/product/135243904/Electromagnetic_Air_Diaphragm_Pump_TPS_5.html
And here is a link to a pond version,
http://www.matalausa.com/prod9.html
Right now I'm working with a company the manufactures micro air/vacuum diaphragm pumps that can be controlled with either a PWM circuit or needle valves. These pumps have really good suction! I received my first pump yesterday but haven't had time to play with it other than test the amount of suction and pressure. I should have a better answer for you by the end of the weekend as to what it will take to build such a device. I'm excited about this mostly because this type of pump can be controlled much more so than a standard magnetic diagram pump.
In case you were wondering, here is a link to the alibaba one, http://m.alibaba.com/product/135243904/Electromagnetic_Air_Diaphragm_Pump_TPS_5.html
And here is a link to a pond version,
http://www.matalausa.com/prod9.html
- Location
- Hudson Yards
Wow, this is getting frustrating. Running the scrubber off the skimmer just isn't going to work for me. It's not impacting the CO2 enough to make any difference.
The tank has been going through around 2 gallons of kalkwasser a day. Sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. Still a good deal more than the tank is losing to evaporation with a Vornado fan blowing full power across the surface of the water. It's not sustainable and will only become more problematic as the weather gets cooler.
Today I disconnected the scrubber from the skimmer and hooked it up to an air pump. The pump is feeding air through the scrubber where it then goes out to an air stone in the sump. I put the pump near the open window to get slightly better quality air than is in the apartment. The pump is not enclosed in anything yet because I'm still not sure how bigh a pump I will need to do this.
Djbetterly, how are you making out? Did you get a bigger pump?
The tank has been going through around 2 gallons of kalkwasser a day. Sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. Still a good deal more than the tank is losing to evaporation with a Vornado fan blowing full power across the surface of the water. It's not sustainable and will only become more problematic as the weather gets cooler.
Today I disconnected the scrubber from the skimmer and hooked it up to an air pump. The pump is feeding air through the scrubber where it then goes out to an air stone in the sump. I put the pump near the open window to get slightly better quality air than is in the apartment. The pump is not enclosed in anything yet because I'm still not sure how bigh a pump I will need to do this.
Djbetterly, how are you making out? Did you get a bigger pump?
- Location
- Deer Park,Long Island,11729
Cybermeez what is your pH at currently?
If your adding kalk to chase pH that's not such a good thing as its going to mess with your Alk & Ca levels and your better off having those along with Mag stable with lower pH.
If your adding kalk to chase pH that's not such a good thing as its going to mess with your Alk & Ca levels and your better off having those along with Mag stable with lower pH.
- Location
- Nutley, NJ
The first pump I received has a lot of vacuum and a lot of psi. I need to be able to regulate the speed of the motor so I'm waiting on a PWM module I picked up on eBay. The current system I have is working quite well. I foresee this as only getting better though.
In the mean time I'll post some pictures so you get an idea. I'll post them this evening, I'm at BBQ right now.
In the mean time I'll post some pictures so you get an idea. I'll post them this evening, I'm at BBQ right now.
- Location
- Hudson Yards
With the kalk being controlled by the Apex the pH is between 8.2 and 8.25. Without it the pH had gotten down to around 7.8. I tested the water today and got the following readings:
Ca=425
Alk=13.2
Mg=1400
- Location
- Deer Park,Long Island,11729
The problem with letting the apex control the pH with Kalk is your
Alk & Ca are going to fluctuate.
I think most would agree it is better to have your pH fluctuate or low and have stable Alk & Ca.
What I did was figured out what my evaporation was per day (which is in between a little over a gal and a gal and a half ) then I dose one gal of kalk spread out over a 24 hour period and my ATO fills in the extra evaporation if needed.
This way your not adding to much water to the tank and my Alk & Ca are stable.
That got my pH to around 7.9 then I was able to add the scrubber to boost it up over 8.
IMOP it sounds like your pulling you hair out over something that is not alll that bad?
Alk & Ca are going to fluctuate.
I think most would agree it is better to have your pH fluctuate or low and have stable Alk & Ca.
What I did was figured out what my evaporation was per day (which is in between a little over a gal and a gal and a half ) then I dose one gal of kalk spread out over a 24 hour period and my ATO fills in the extra evaporation if needed.
This way your not adding to much water to the tank and my Alk & Ca are stable.
That got my pH to around 7.9 then I was able to add the scrubber to boost it up over 8.
IMOP it sounds like your pulling you hair out over something that is not alll that bad?
Alk way to High, there is a good relationship between ,Ca,Alk,Mg.
If u got 425 Ca your Alk must be around 9 Dkh and Mg 1350, then if u still have low PH, may be u Protein Skimmer do not perform well, u may need more water flow, better PH monitor, run air from outside.Lots of Great reefers they got 7.9 PH.
- Location
- Hudson Yards
The pH falls way below 7.9. It dropped to 7.7 and that's what started all this. I lost my beautiful GARF Bonsi, appleberry monti, ponape birdsnet, setosa monti and all the coraline algae disintigrated when it got that low.
Buffers don't work, good water flow doesn't work, ample Alk, Ca and Mg doesn't work, hooking the scrubber up to the skimmer doesn't work, hooking it up to a little un-enclosed air pump doesn't work and I can't dose enough kalk per day without exceeding the evaporation rate.
I'm really at a loss. The only thing left I can think of is to get a bigger pump, seal it in a Tupperware box, and push air from outside through the scrubber and into the tank via an air stone. Even if that works, what is that going to do to the temp of the tank come winter?
What's got me even more worried is that this likely has been a problem ever since I moved into this apartment 2 years ago, and the only thing keeping from happening sooner was that all the aragonite sand was new. I have a very deep sandbed for my blue dot jawfish and the thought of trying to replace it is sickening.
- Location
- Nutley, NJ
Parts are coming slower than expected. I have one of the pumps, enclosure and fan. Now waiting on PWM board. Hopefully this will happen soon. I'm very anxious to test this out. You should definitely try out what I have so far. A couple of pics to follow in the next post.
- Location
- Nutley, NJ
Ok, here are two pics, one of the tupperware, and another of the scrubber. I have the tupperware sitting on a piece of filter floss to help dampen the noise. Its one of the issues I'll be working on. I had filter floss inside the tupperware but the pump got way too hot. Lastly, you'll see a pic of my pH data. Its quite clear when I put the pump into action.
The only thing I didn't show was an airline valve between the pump and the scrubber to regulate the air pressure that goes into the skimmer.
The only thing I didn't show was an airline valve between the pump and the scrubber to regulate the air pressure that goes into the skimmer.
Attachments
- Location
- Sound Beach,LI
Where do you get the media for the scrubber?
- Location
- Nutley, NJ
Same here...
- Location
- Sound Beach,LI
Cool, thanks for the link :beer:
- Location
- Deer Park,Long Island,11729
- Location
- Hudson Yards
I may regret it, but I got one of these to push more air through the scrubber and into the sump.
- Location
- Deer Park,Long Island,11729
- Location
- Deer Park,Long Island,11729
Just a note :
I did find out the amount of media in the reactor does have a effect on wether my pH goes up or down.
2 inches of media my pH is lower
4-6 inches of media seems to make it go the highest so far.
7-9 makes pH on the lower side.
Thus I think you need to find the right amount of media for your size co2 scrubber.
I did find out the amount of media in the reactor does have a effect on wether my pH goes up or down.
2 inches of media my pH is lower
4-6 inches of media seems to make it go the highest so far.
7-9 makes pH on the lower side.
Thus I think you need to find the right amount of media for your size co2 scrubber.
MikeC, what could be happening when you are using a lot of media is that since there is more resistance your skimmer is not pulling as much air as before. I have notice that gently tumbling the reactor manually does help tons!
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