I have the hardest time with zoas. HELP!

[troywalkerphoto]

Hey Ladies and Gents!
Well for the umpteenth time I have traded for some "easy" zoas and they refuse to open or they half open. I don't know at this point. I have read and followed trade instructions but to no avail. I am sick of loosing them and my stubbornness wont allow me to quit. I would love to hear a tricks that may be useful.

The environment:
76 gal tank (Half round)
t5 5 bulb setup (3 blue 2 50/50 all ati)
2 nano korrailias 2 750's on a wave maker set for 6 hr interval
BRS dual reactor with rowaphos (the best stuff ever!) second chamber is nitrate sponge 65% brs fine carbon 35%
corallife skimmer rated for 125gal (
10 hour cycle with blues first and off last
sump plenty of macro algae and plenty of coralline algae(I scrape to maintain)
temp avg 80 degrees
cal 380/420 ppm
Mag 1320ppm
nitrate .75-2ppm
PO4 .64-2ppm
kh 7.8
Water changes monthly 20%
reg maint schedule with weekly dosing of strontium, amino, iodine
test with redsea testers
fish ( Lemonpeel, false lemonpeel, blond naso tang, 2 chromis, 1 talbots, 1 clown.
1 bubble nem, 1 green tip nem
(clown is greedy and uses both bubble tip is the penthouse)

Cleanup crew of crabs of all sorts, snails of all sorts. 3 huge turbos, 1 huge green brittle star 15" at least tip to tip.

 

[jcdeng]

what other corals do u have in the tank? are they doing well? I am asking cuz your phosphate is REALLY high if that was not a typo. Try correcting that to 0.05-0.1 ppm first and see how your zoas (and corals) respond.

 

[yesjenks]

Are you sure your Angel's don't have a zoa appetite?

 

[ecvernon]

I also noticed your phosphate reading was a little high but I don't think that would keep them from opening. Are your other coral fine? If so have you checked for common pests such as nudibrances and asternia starfish? Are you dipping new additions? Have you tried to dip ones already in tank to see if anything comes off?

 

[Alexm8856]

You might have a nipper angels are known to nip

 

[SteveZ15]

Check at night with a flash light watch for nudis sundial snails and asterina.. sundials will kill zoas fast ..blow them lightly and make them close and look close to see..When they are closed really tight usually means somethings nipping or eating them.I get asterina sometimes but i get them fast I am always staring at the tank lol.

 

[troywalkerphoto]

Ok so. I increased the po4 and no3 because I was told the like a "dirty" tank. I did this over a long period of time so as not to stress everything out. The values are correct at an average of .75 and .64ppm that's less than 1 part per million on each. I have branching hammers, octospawn, Neon green birdsnest, ponape, a whole host of monti's (5 types), forestfire digitata, gsp, pulsing xenia, blue xenia, and a number of others that I don't recall the name at the moment. I have checked the night life (under red light) and with the exception of a few bristle worms and pods we are good.
I have sold some members here frags of this corals and with the exception of one xenia melting on a member I have a good rating and ppl send me pics of the stuff doing great.

I have looked into every variable I can think of. The only thing that is of concern is the temp as I do not chill but again the temp is well within the scope of success. So what gives?

 

[duke62]

Sounds like either the angels are nipping or you have a pest. Take out a zoa that closes or partially opens and dip them. Get a magnifying glass and look around the dip container. Watch your lemon peels closely as well

 

[yesjenks]

Other than the angel's (I mentioned that above), the only thing I can think of is asterina starfish. They're the little white starfish that you'll see on your glass. I had asterina problem and they ate over 300 zoas in a few nights.

IMO you don't have to raise your p04 and n03 that high to happily keep zoa's. I'd bring it back down.

Good luck!!

 

[troywalkerphoto]

I thought the same thing but it takes several days to partially open and then they either stay that way or the button up tight... I will try my hospital tank with a fresh mix under optimum no fish scenario once I find a light for it.

 

[yesjenks]

Have all the zoa's you've tried come from the same source? What light were they under in the previous owner's tank? Were they in direct light in there previous tank?
Are they on the bottom of your tank?

In addition to what I suggested before, it could be that they're being burnt from your light.

 

[troywalkerphoto]

From led to my t5. Different sources?

 

[turbotone]

i have the same problem but only because i have an infestation of nudi branches that i cant seem to irradiate... smh ive had a few good size colonies down to like 15-30 heads that were once over 100.. cause was not dipping my frags or quarantine.. now i cant get rid of them.. i dip and put them back and itll be fine for about 3 weeks and then it starts again.. so try looking for nudi branches.. the first few nudi branches i had looked nice with neon colors so they were easy to find with the moon lights but after they ate all of my orange and red polyps i guess there camoflauge now because i cant see them and all i have pretty much left are some purple polyps.. im gonna stop getting polyps till my next tank and hopefully theyll starve and die before then.. i used flatworm exit and it killed alot of my bristle star fish that i had no idea i had till they were just surfacing dead.. didnt work on my nudi branches though.. used 3 bottles one per week on a gallon dt hope this info helps and good luck.. hope you can source the issue

 

[troywalkerphoto]

You know its funny. One of my LFS said that its a hit or miss thing sometimes. He has clients that cant raise acans, zoas, etc. while others don't even try. Its all very frustrating as I bought a weird shape tank 5 years ago (half round 76 gal) so its too deep and the flow patterns are a bit tricky.
Im going back to a low nutrient setup and if I cant keep zoas in this setup I will start a new smaller independent setup.
Please keep the info coming as I will be compiling the best of practices for better results.

 

[cmantis]

I would say your flow might be the issue then. I can keep whatever and don't even know what Im doing I just straight renegade it and make it happen.

 

[troywalkerphoto]

Cmantis I thought about that so I placed 2 750 korailias on either side and 2 nanos in the back on a wavemaker. so the flo is good not too strong and its variable.
Anybody have feeding tips. I have not heard anything on that.

 

[strgazr27]

I don't feed any of my zoos. They get whatever is in the water column from fish feeding. Your phosphates are high. Wether this is cause I cannot say but at that level I am very surprised you do not have a nuisance algae issue. I have a 60 cube with a 650gph Korallia in it. Other
Than dual returns I have no other circulation. Asm G3 skimmer. I dose nothing and have done 1 30 gallon wc since I set the tank up in April. Zero issues keeping zoos.
As its been said the angels can be very nippy. Have you tried dipping them in a peroxide solution? Every few weeks, especially w new frags I will give the zoos a dip in a bowl w peroxide. About 10 capfuls to a cereal sized bowl of water. 2-4 minute dip. Cleans them up and although they get pissed and close up for anywheres from a few hours to a few days when they do open they look fantastic.
These are from yesterday. Lighting is a 250w Ushio 20K halide in a lumenbrite reflector on for 5 hours a day and 2 11" trulumen pro actinic strips on for 9 hours a day. And yes the aptasia in that one shot is gone lol

 

[troywalkerphoto]

I followed some "dirty tank" advice as I was running ultra low to low 0.00 to 0.016 on nitrate and phos. first with no luck. Im just going to go back to low nutrient setup today. 30% water change, new rowaphos, sand vac and rework rockwork to get more open area. So you know all my other corals are fine. Its just weird! Swinging the needle back from crazy and going with what works!

 

[Atsoi88]

Just curious how much Rowaphos do you use on your system, if i go by the recommended amount its barely anything for my 36 gallon.

 

[troywalkerphoto]

I normally triple the amount of rowa they suggest. reason being that it does not leach back into the system and I have my reactor on a bypass. So only 25% of my total water volume travels thru it. I would say the best thing for you is to meter the return on yours and see the reading. If the reading is 0 or close to it then your good. If not then add more til it is. a nice roiling flow is good. The media should roil but not disperse.