Im having some bleaching issues on some of my sps,I been trying to find out the problem forever I cant find the problem. my system is a follows 40 breeder,trigger system crystal 30 sump,octopuss classic skimmer ,2 mp 10,ghl doser. some of my monties and a few sps frags slowly fade over time. I also have vertex gfo reactor. I have ati 6bulb t5 about 7 inches from the water 3 blue plus one atinic one purple one aqua blue. I don't know if I am starving or cooking my corals or something is in my water or what. my coralline is gone my test don't tell me much 10dkh which is steady I test all different times cal is always over 500 I don't know why,mag is high over 1500 I don't know why. phos and nitrate at o. I have a separate room where my tank is so I leave the window cracked to help with getting clean air in. I dose 30 ml alk 3ml 10X a day the calc I dose 2 ml 3x a day .I don't dose mag. I use 2part b ionic. tank is controlled via apex. Is it the lighting or am I missing something.. The corals have good pe but to me seems like slow growth, I been dosing seachem amino a capful everyother day for a month really no improvement. I still don't un derstand why I have to dose soo much alk compare to cal. I have 2 small clowns a pj cardinal a dotty back and pink anthias for fish all fis are 2-3 inches feed daily with a mix of things rods,artic pods oyster feast, I change around 5 to 8 gals a week with rc salt.I use 40 grams rowa in a reactor and change about every 3 weeks or once a month,and chemipure carbon in athe bag chamber in sump change opnce a month also. I cut back on gfo ang get algae.I thought it was my rodi but had this isuue before and after I changed the media and filters. I don't get much from the skimmer mabe 2 weeks I change it I try to feed more but after a few days I get algae and still trying to clean out all the bubble algae I got from when I had mh lights. any suggestions would be great because I have no Idea what to try next.
T5 light height
- Thread starter SteveZ15
- Start date
Steve post some pics of your SPS. The amount of light that your corals will handle will depend on your nutrient level. Just get the basics out of the way. Double check your temp (make sure not high) and calibrate your refractometer. If you are bleaching many SPS stop using the GFO. What is your photoperiod length? You may have to reduce intensity and duration. T5's like to make colors go pastel so it takes a little extra work to find a balance.
Right now I am thinking GFO overdose, especially since your coraline is gone. IMO the aminos is most likely fueling your algae problems. I would stop.
Right now I am thinking GFO overdose, especially since your coraline is gone. IMO the aminos is most likely fueling your algae problems. I would stop.
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- Location
- Upper East Side of NYC
Are the SPS bleaching out totally white, or just slowly fading and not looking good/as good as they should? Those are two different issues altogether. Bleaching is almost always too much light. Slowly fading / looking like poop is another story.
It sounds like it's more of a slow fade. I bet it's in your reds and purple SPS? You're still seeing PE, which is a good thing. If the SPS were bleaching out quickly you'd lose PE too and then yeah... In my experience no PE generally means bad things.
First thing I'd suggest is a slight bulb change to your T5. You have an excellent fixture, but I'd change at least one bulb...So you're current config is 3x ATI Blue Plus, 1 ATI Aquablue Special, 1 ATI Actinic and 1x Purple Plus. I would pick up 1x ATI Coral Plus and 1x GE6500k and use either to replace Aqua Blue Special which is known to cause some corals to look "washed out" for lack of a better term. The GE6500k is a very bright bulb that will help bring out the reds and purples in your SPS more. It also is a growth MONSTER. Some people think it's too yellow, but that's all in the eye of the beholder. The alternative is the ATI Coral Plus which is ATI's sort of replacement for the Aqua Blue Special. It's just as powerful as the ABS, but does a much better job of bringing out the red-ish colors of your coral, SPS specifically. Either way I'd definitely ditch the Aqua Blue Special for either of those. I'd try the GE for a few months and see how you like it as you also mentioned growth.
While I'm talking about bulbs... are your current bulbs very old and in need of replacement? And yeah what's your photo period like?
I'm jealous of your 0 readings for PO4 and NO3.
I'd also be interested in some pictures to compare against the ones in your tank thread.
Reducing your aminos isn't a bad idea, but with 0 readings for both PO4 and NO3, the SPS could still be starving for nutrients at the same time and thus the aminos are a good thing.
I at first thought it was the light I originally had @x150 14k phinex with 2ati blue plus and 2 atinic. Had that about a foot off the tank,The fixture started to act up and was bulb change time,I got the ati..Thinking I had too much light for the tank any way.Here some pics the rainbow monti nexto the blasto ,the birds nest the big one was a neon green, the smaller was a green and yellow body the one by the gsp is birds of paradise. I re scaped the tank and removed a ton of bubble algae took out rocks I had them packed too tight and gave me problems.The tank was looking like it was gonna bounce back for more than a month but this is what it looks like,not good. The light is 1pm the blue and purple come on at 3pm the rest come on the go off at 9pm with just blue and purple they go off at 11pm. Thanks for the help. I did everything except break down the tank. its a year this month I really don't want to take it down and restart.
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You are stripping your reef. This is not a difficult fix but you have to change your technique. This will go against your instinct at the moment lol. You have to dirty things up 
Your corals need more dissolved organics to grow more zooxanthellae and darken up.
1) stop using GFO. You don't need it at the moment. You're po4 is likely stripped.
2) Raise your light up to 12" and shorten overall photoperiod to 8 hrs (4 hrs with all lights on) for the time being
3) skim very dry.
4) go buy yourself another fish and feed your fish twice per day.
You will see a difference within a week, but it will take several weeks if not months to get great color on your coral. As your nutrient level rises and corals darken and show color, you slowly increase filtration and photoperod. Eventually you find the balance and maintain a colorful SPS reef.
Your corals need more dissolved organics to grow more zooxanthellae and darken up. 1) stop using GFO. You don't need it at the moment. You're po4 is likely stripped.
2) Raise your light up to 12" and shorten overall photoperiod to 8 hrs (4 hrs with all lights on) for the time being
3) skim very dry.
4) go buy yourself another fish and feed your fish twice per day.
You will see a difference within a week, but it will take several weeks if not months to get great color on your coral. As your nutrient level rises and corals darken and show color, you slowly increase filtration and photoperod. Eventually you find the balance and maintain a colorful SPS reef.
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Thanks. I been struggling with the gfo ..because one time I didn't change it for a while and bubble and other stuff like calpura and things other than hair algae went bad. it was doing good I had phos guard pellets and put in a bag in the sump the algae was good and I started to slightly see better colors that's when algae starts so I went to change phos guard ran out so I put 30 grams rowa in my reactor, that barely covers the bottom of the reactor so I thought it was a safe amount. I am gonna get more phos guard and use that in the reactor. ill take the rowa off and keep it off. but have the phos guard on hand for when I need to run it. I might get a par meter lent to me today so ill par the tank with the light at different heights so I know.I been wanting another fish im not sure what to get because the little dotty back can be tough. I cant get anything that like to hug the rock work because she will chase it. I had a midas blenny which after a few months she eventually killed it ,that sucked it was a real cool fish.Any insight to why my cal and mag is high and me having to dose mostly alk to keep levels up? any relation to the corals not using up as they should due to no fuel in its body. I skim dry already. The temp 77-78 only a 1 degree swing from apex chart. One thing I dint know was there was a calibration fluid for refract. I use rodi. I will get that.Im gonna do my water change I stir the tank up to try to feed the coral.Thanks for the advice
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Rich definitely covered the stripping part and would definitely follow his sound advice.
But! i also think that there is more to focus on as well. If your Refractometer's calibrated and are getting 10dkh 500+cal and 1500+magnesium then your levels aren't balanced and can definitely be playing a major roll in the decrease of corals..
Reading your second post i can see the tank has went through some changes. Now is the time to get things stable and back on track.
There is nothing wrong with a tank having a different alkalinity and calcium consumption. But in your case your levels aren't balanced and your amounts aren't making sense to me.. Finding your tanks true actual consumption isn't possible until you correct them.
If your tank is lets say 40 gallon total water volume (after displacement) , You need to dose the following with ESV BIONIC: (the numbers are used for reference as i do not know your total water volume)
40ml of alk to raise alk approx 1.07dkh
40ml of cal to raise cal approx 15ppt.
So now, you claim you are dosing
30 ml of alk and
6 ml of calcium.
What exactly is 6ml of cal doing for your tank? Your weekly water change should be covering that. You cant possibly know if you need to be dosing 30ml of alk / 6 ml of calcium without first achieving a balance. And if you found that to be your consumption then something went wrong somewhere.
The First thing I would do is shut that doser off and perform a large and/or series of water changes to get your levels right - particularly Calcium and magnesium.
Test the fresh batch of saltwater to make sure your getting desired results (as this could throw off a tank as well, RED SEA CORAL PRO has very high levels) and then perform a change. Repeat and Test your tank until they are desirable.
Once your levels are within a desirable range, then i would start to figure out your consumption rate.
You can check this link, second post for help with that:
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/chemistry/144208-how-dosing-help.html
Another thing to note,
Bionic 2part from ESV contains/covers ALK, CAL, & MAG.
If you need help with anything above just let me know, i would gladly help further.
What salt are you using?
Are you shutting the doser on waterchange day?
Have you ever tested a fresh batch of saltwater?
But! i also think that there is more to focus on as well. If your Refractometer's calibrated and are getting 10dkh 500+cal and 1500+magnesium then your levels aren't balanced and can definitely be playing a major roll in the decrease of corals..
Reading your second post i can see the tank has went through some changes. Now is the time to get things stable and back on track.
There is nothing wrong with a tank having a different alkalinity and calcium consumption. But in your case your levels aren't balanced and your amounts aren't making sense to me.. Finding your tanks true actual consumption isn't possible until you correct them.
If your tank is lets say 40 gallon total water volume (after displacement) , You need to dose the following with ESV BIONIC: (the numbers are used for reference as i do not know your total water volume)
40ml of alk to raise alk approx 1.07dkh
40ml of cal to raise cal approx 15ppt.
So now, you claim you are dosing
30 ml of alk and
6 ml of calcium.
What exactly is 6ml of cal doing for your tank? Your weekly water change should be covering that. You cant possibly know if you need to be dosing 30ml of alk / 6 ml of calcium without first achieving a balance. And if you found that to be your consumption then something went wrong somewhere.
The First thing I would do is shut that doser off and perform a large and/or series of water changes to get your levels right - particularly Calcium and magnesium.
Test the fresh batch of saltwater to make sure your getting desired results (as this could throw off a tank as well, RED SEA CORAL PRO has very high levels) and then perform a change. Repeat and Test your tank until they are desirable.
Once your levels are within a desirable range, then i would start to figure out your consumption rate.
You can check this link, second post for help with that:
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/chemistry/144208-how-dosing-help.html
Another thing to note,
Bionic 2part from ESV contains/covers ALK, CAL, & MAG.
If you need help with anything above just let me know, i would gladly help further.
What salt are you using?
Are you shutting the doser on waterchange day?
Have you ever tested a fresh batch of saltwater?
- Location
- Staten Island , Princess Bay
I think I ma doing the same thing . I was feeding every other day and was chasing phosphate .
IT was balanced at one point. I took the sand out of the fuge and it was a brick. that's when I notice cal going up it hit 600 at one point. I like to keep my alk at 10. I use ref crystal salt cal 420-470 alk 10 sometimes 11 in the salt mag is 1450 in salt. I try to keep my tank in those ranges. for some reason my tank eats alk up. so I started to lower the cal by 3 ml at a shot on dose program every week I did it till it got to 6 which I did the other day . I was scared of the alk to drop from me lowering cal. so I did it slow. I always have to dose alk it drops quickly in my tank . I am scared to death of messing with the alk. You might have pointed out a mistake I been making I don't shut off the doser for 24 hr when I change water. I heard high cal and mag is not a problem so I haven't really messed with it. my total gal is 55-57 with sump and reactor,not taking into account the rocks.
Get a larger fish than the dotty back. A nice wrasse will do. You need fish that actually makes noticeable poop in your tank Tiny fish won't cut it. If this was my tank I would have at least 5 swimming poopers, and a goby + some other small fish.
Get the 1.026 refractometer calibration fluid. As for the cal, alk, and mg Jonny is spot on. You need to find out what the tank is consuming. When everything is healthy and growing consumption from a balance additive like b-ionic should be the same dosage for Alk and Cal. Bleaching your corals certainly has something to do with it. I would dose manually once per day, when necessary, and keep testing to see what I'm consuming in a day. I usually test 1-2 times per week even when things are always the same?. paranoia I guess
Tiny fish won't cut it. If this was my tank I would have at least 5 swimming poopers, and a goby + some other small fish. Get the 1.026 refractometer calibration fluid. As for the cal, alk, and mg Jonny is spot on. You need to find out what the tank is consuming. When everything is healthy and growing consumption from a balance additive like b-ionic should be the same dosage for Alk and Cal. Bleaching your corals certainly has something to do with it. I would dose manually once per day, when necessary, and keep testing to see what I'm consuming in a day. I usually test 1-2 times per week even when things are always the same?. paranoia I guess
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- Location
- Upper East Side of NYC
Looks very washed out and "flat" color wise. Part of that is probably photography, part of it is not. I would:
Immediately change out that Aqua Blue Special for a GE6500k (or Coral+ but I prefer the former)
Once you've done that, reduce your lighting period to 4 hours with all your bulbs burning, 6-8 with just the 2 dawn/dusk. Increase the all 6 bulb period 1 hour per week for 4 weeks as well as the dawn dusk. Eventually something along the lines of 8 hours - all bulbs, 10 hours dawn/dusk.
Keep using GFO (not Phosguard, I don't like Phosguard at all) but be conservative with it. Make sure it's not tumbling wildly, just a light dance at the to of the reactor. Putting the output into a filter sock isn't a bad idea either if you're worried about tiny particles leaving the reactor and making it into the water.
Measure PO4 once a week (not right after feeding) If you see it rise above .07, might be time to change. But that's not OMG CHANGE NOW DROP THE BABY time. You don't have to panic. If you see algae going bonkers, then change it sooner. I don't see needing to change it out more than once a month though.
You might discontinue using carbon for a while but that's a religious debate.
Get 2-ish more fish. There must be something you want. Perhaps some anthias? Or maybe a few wrasse? Lubocks Fair Wrasse is a pretty fish. Feed 2x a day, varied diet. The extra food and fish poop will also fuel coral color and growth.
Continue with the aminos, but back off if you see algae go bonkers. In fact you might stop the aminos altogether for a week or so while you iron things out.
You might consider feeding Reef Roids, BRS Reef Chili, and/or cyclop-eeze. Corals love that stuff (and so do fish, at least mine do)
Most of all - don't panic and go slow. First thing to do is for sure change out that 1 bulb. You'd be surprised how much of a difference it will make. I was shocked myself.
how can I find actual consumption without a deadly alk drop? ITs 10 now if I stoped dosing it would pro be at 7 by Friday. one of the problems I experienced when I first started dosing was the balance would fall where the cal is 420-450 the alk would be 7.5 I started to increase but it would take more alk than cal to keep alk at 10 and or else the cal would be way high. I test the alk every other day because I don't want it to drop. I am gonna change 5 gal and shut doser and test tonight after im done then test 24 hrs later. Just curious how many fish can I put in 40 breeder . ill try a coral plus I want a blueish look like when I had mh lights. IM gonna make water tomorrow so I can do 5 gal changes every day with no doser then ill start to try to find consumption rate. I will shut off and test tonite and tomorrow just to know how much alk will drop in one day so I know how much wiggle room I have when it comes time to find my consumption,As for the lights I want a almost 20k look like inbetween 14 and 20k. I had a another aqua blue in there and it was too white
I have just a few more questions. First off Thanks everyone for helping me. I think that light was way too much the height I had it. And the big mistake I had was not shutting doser when I did water changes. The alk and cal and mag were good alk 11. cal 500 mag 1500. I didn't dose 24 hr re tested and dosed 20ml each part,did the test today alk 10.5 cal 480 mag 1460 I want to keep these levels. The next day after I lifted the light the purple stylo showed a hint of color and even more today.The zoas opened better they looked small,today they look fuller. My questions are when I need to run the phos reactor I will let the phos rise to .05 then run the rowa. People always stress 0 numbers ,how do you have 0 phos and not starve the coral? When I need to run rowa should I only run it 12 hrs a day to not starve the coral. Also how can I tell if the corals don't get enough light ,so when they recover I don't light starve them because I raised the light. One last thing, I had that one off balance dosing schedule.
what kept the alk up because the cal and mag were 550 and 1650 when I was dosing one third the amount of cal,even with dosing day of water changes. I just want to get more of a grasp on what to look for when things start to fall out if sync. I read a few good reads ,one pointed out that cal drops slow compare to alk so it makes you thing you need to add more alk but really you need more of both,that was my trouble when I first started to use 2 part.Its funny the past week I learned more about my tank in the past week than I did since I had it. I didn't realize how strong the ati lights are even the color of the light looks better since its up higher,My mistake was judging by brightness where to set it.
what kept the alk up because the cal and mag were 550 and 1650 when I was dosing one third the amount of cal,even with dosing day of water changes. I just want to get more of a grasp on what to look for when things start to fall out if sync. I read a few good reads ,one pointed out that cal drops slow compare to alk so it makes you thing you need to add more alk but really you need more of both,that was my trouble when I first started to use 2 part.Its funny the past week I learned more about my tank in the past week than I did since I had it. I didn't realize how strong the ati lights are even the color of the light looks better since its up higher,My mistake was judging by brightness where to set it.
- Location
- Staten Island , Princess Bay
Good questions, I had did an upgrade/move and used dry rock in new upgrade with my existing rock and water, my phos was 0.39 over a month i got it down to 0.04 just tested now and it is 0 . Is 0 bad?
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Steve, first stop and take the PAR meter, not sure if u Aquascape is good design, u may have lots of dead spots, u need more flow, i see lots of Algae (all kind ) 7" H for T5 is low ( in special for that tank) 6 T5 for (18" H) way too much, i will like to see u Protein Skimmer, your # Ca, Mg,Alk. too high, try Ca 425, Mg 1350 Alk 9, use good salt (ESV or Red sea) try to dose some Carbon for bacteria (Vodka, Vinegar etc) make sure u sand is clean (i dont like sand, but is u choice ) when u see coraline is back , u good. Try to run a hose (fresh air) from outside , connect to Protein Skimmer.
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Ill.Get The Meter Tonight I Got Tied Up The Other Day. I Have Octopuss Nwb Skimmer. I Use Carbon In A Media Bag..Gotta Read Up On Vodka Dosing I Have It Down Pact Dosing Myself But There Is No Way Im Sharing My Grey Goose With My Fish Tank.Thats When You Knkw Its Enough When YoUr Having A Few ShOts With Your reeftank. I Stayed Away From Esv And Red Sea Because Of The High Levels Of Ca And Alk .. Reefcrystals Is Closest To The Numbers I Try To keep
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