My nitrates are always low .75 and phos o-.02 I don't carbon dose just a bag of chemipure in sump. Would you consider this a unls. I am thinking about. lowering my alk its steady at 10.2 I was thinking about slowly going to 8.5.. My tank has been steady with alk and cal mag. I stopped rowa added 2 fish and raised the light fixture,I got some color back on some sps but something don't seem exactly right, Could it be possible 10.2 alk is too high for this tank. Thanks
A couple questions.
- Thread starter SteveZ15
- Start date
Steve your issue here is understanding the nutrient balance. Lighting intensity/duration, alkalinity, and nutrients are part of this balance.
1) Determining your nutrient level.
I do this with a glance of a tank. Tanks kind of get a sterile look in an ULNS. Acros usually faded/pastel. Water is super clear with little diatom growth. Coraline also tends to fade in color. Remember I am talking "ULTRA" low nutrient. Most of us don't have this unless we overdid it with GFO, carbon sources, or low bioload with little feeding. This also happens more frequently in BB systems due to their efficiency at removing organics, and lack of organic storing areas.
-Testkits obviously.
Unfortunately you can take your po4 reading with a grain of salt at low levels. Nitrates are a good indicator, but just because you have detectable or elevated no3, doesn't mean that your po4 is not stripped from GFO
-Diatom growth
This is a great indicator. If it takes you more than 3 days to see some diatom on the glass, this is indicative of an ULNS. I've experienced and have seen systems that go almost a week with no diatom growth, and yes they were most definitely ULN
In the end ULN is just a term that was drummed up on the reef boards. IMO this is not a healthy way to run a reef and should not be a goal for any of us, even SPS guys.
2) Lighting
Very simple. The lower the nutrient level is in the reef, the less light your corals will tolerate / need to become photo-saturated. Think of the zoox inside the coral as sunscreen. The browner it is, the more light it will need to show color and calcify. Do not confuse brown with a tan color that SPS get when they are partially bleached.
example of the low nutrient tan would be this tricolor in my tank. I originally gave it too much light. Once they get this color it takes a while to get the correct colors back. I've seen entire tanks looks like this.
IMG_8443 by rich.colombo, on Flickr
3) Alkalinity
This is a really overemphasized parameter IMO. People put too much thought and blame on ALK. In general the cleaner your tank is the closer to natural seawater levels that you want to be. In a true ULN tank your ALK should be pretty low. I would keep it in the 7's (DKH). Like I said, most of us are not ULN and will benefit from a higher lever from 8.5-10DKH. Heck, back in the day when we all had dirty tanks, it was common to run DKH 11-12DKH sometimes more. Unless you are running an obviously stripped tank my advice would be to play it safe. I like 9DKH as a standard level. This is where I run my heavily fed, low nutrient tank (Not ULN)
Steve, last time I saw your tank it had the stripped look. I know you were running GFO and not feeding much with few fish. How have things changed since then? Maybe post some current pics. What's not looking right?
1) Determining your nutrient level.
I do this with a glance of a tank. Tanks kind of get a sterile look in an ULNS. Acros usually faded/pastel. Water is super clear with little diatom growth. Coraline also tends to fade in color. Remember I am talking "ULTRA" low nutrient. Most of us don't have this unless we overdid it with GFO, carbon sources, or low bioload with little feeding. This also happens more frequently in BB systems due to their efficiency at removing organics, and lack of organic storing areas.
-Testkits obviously.
Unfortunately you can take your po4 reading with a grain of salt at low levels. Nitrates are a good indicator, but just because you have detectable or elevated no3, doesn't mean that your po4 is not stripped from GFO
-Diatom growth
This is a great indicator. If it takes you more than 3 days to see some diatom on the glass, this is indicative of an ULNS. I've experienced and have seen systems that go almost a week with no diatom growth, and yes they were most definitely ULN
In the end ULN is just a term that was drummed up on the reef boards. IMO this is not a healthy way to run a reef and should not be a goal for any of us, even SPS guys.
2) Lighting
Very simple. The lower the nutrient level is in the reef, the less light your corals will tolerate / need to become photo-saturated. Think of the zoox inside the coral as sunscreen. The browner it is, the more light it will need to show color and calcify. Do not confuse brown with a tan color that SPS get when they are partially bleached.
example of the low nutrient tan would be this tricolor in my tank. I originally gave it too much light. Once they get this color it takes a while to get the correct colors back. I've seen entire tanks looks like this.
IMG_8443 by rich.colombo, on Flickr
3) Alkalinity
This is a really overemphasized parameter IMO. People put too much thought and blame on ALK. In general the cleaner your tank is the closer to natural seawater levels that you want to be. In a true ULN tank your ALK should be pretty low. I would keep it in the 7's (DKH). Like I said, most of us are not ULN and will benefit from a higher lever from 8.5-10DKH. Heck, back in the day when we all had dirty tanks, it was common to run DKH 11-12DKH sometimes more. Unless you are running an obviously stripped tank my advice would be to play it safe. I like 9DKH as a standard level. This is where I run my heavily fed, low nutrient tank (Not ULN
)Steve, last time I saw your tank it had the stripped look. I know you were running GFO and not feeding much with few fish. How have things changed since then? Maybe post some current pics. What's not looking right?
Last edited:
This sounds like my problems. My tank is just over a year old. My alk is consistent at 8-8.5. My calc doesn't move from 450. My mag is 1350-14. But have 0 nitrates and phos. My tank looks sterile with very little coraline. Almost a couple specs on overflow and glass. My zoas dont grow or spread. Nothing. So do I have a ulns? I feed 1x a day but add oyster feast, fuel, and zooplankton during the week. Still nothing. Do 10 gallon changes every 2 weeks. Im at a loss.
I will get s few pics when the lights are on. I added a ruby head wrasse and a carpenters wrasse . I put a frag of a purple valliada last week to see what happens so far it looks good. But my blue stag got some stn and my slimmer too I gotta cut them later. I have a better understanding of things since last time you helped me. I was reading and saw things about low nutrients and alk levels. I was surprised to see the stn . And some montis never really gained color but grew . Some of my zoa frags are multiplying faster. I see everything improving in the tank like steadier ph coralline coming back . So I was stumped about the stn, it is base up so the article mentioned that. ill get pics now
Certainly sounds like ULN but definitely need more info. Post a thread in the SPS forum. You should list all the specs and inhabitants of your system and post pics. You'll get the answers that you're looking for.
Running the ALK lower 8.5-9 would be a good thing to do. See if it makes a difference. Since you are increasing your bioload from a previously stripped tank you are probably going to see slight diatom outbreak, possible cyano in the future. Basically you are probably going to get a mini cycle as the system grows more bacteria to deal with more nutrients. I would start dosing a nitrifying bacterial product to help things along (I like prodibo biodigest). This worked very well for me in my tanks. IMO I have great stability because of this bacteria. I guess Tims, or special blend nite out would work as well if you need to find something local.
Last edited:
I will look into the bactria,is it a boost or a daily dose? Here some pics the birdsnest is starting to show color its hard to capture in the pic the red monti is a little better the green no change the orange digi is better and the stn. I am glad I got the new fish. I might try to catch the dotty back somehow it picked the smaller wrasse fin a bit ,the bigger one is starting to keep the dotty back in check ill give it time. These are nice fish glad I got them. Btw ready for flounder
Attachments
Most of the nitrifying bacteria products are weekly or bi-monthy doses. Some have an initial booster dose and then a lower maintenance dose. I dose these products indefinitely. I never really believed that bottled bacteria worked until I tried it. I saw a huge increase in polyp extension and I believe better colors. Sucks about the blue stag, try cutting it ad gluing over recession.
I see a little improvement but things are still very faded. Do what you have to do to get more fish in there Go fishing for that little dotty back POS LOL You're going to be amazed how well these corals recover when you get more fish peeing and pooping in your tank. That wrasse is awesome btw
I don't think I'm going to bother with flounder this year. We are at the final steps of completely refinishing the downeaster and will probably run right down to the wire for the start of bass season. The boat is looking sick
I see a little improvement but things are still very faded. Do what you have to do to get more fish in there
Go fishing for that little dotty back POS LOL You're going to be amazed how well these corals recover when you get more fish peeing and pooping in your tank. That wrasse is awesome btwI don't think I'm going to bother with flounder this year. We are at the final steps of completely refinishing the downeaster and will probably run right down to the wire for the start of bass season. The boat is looking sick
I had the 8' seekers and they are good, but I bought a set of those Tony Maja spoons rods and they work even better. I'm not sure which blanks they are but the action is great. They also have enough power to troll umbrellas I always liked the 9' seekers best but storage on the boat was a PITA so I was limited to 8' rods.
I always liked the 9' seekers best but storage on the boat was a PITA so I was limited to 8' rods.
- Location
- South Salem
Try surf casting awesome with a six pack! 11 foot mojo surf and an old school penn squider!
Things Are Looking Better Some Pices Are Coloring Up Nicely Some The Same I Added A Valiada Frag And Looks Just Like When I Got It A Few Weeks Ago Also Put A Mariculture Acro Which Had A Light Color Its Turning Like A Reddish Pink Looking Better Then When I Got it.. What I Learned So Far I.had More Negative Affects From Using Rowa Wether It Was Uses TOO Much Or Not.. Elevated Phos Did Less Damage If Any Only Bad Thing Was Some Algae The Tank Looks A Aot Better With .02_.04 Phos Even If It Got Higher There Was No Rtn Stn. I Think For My Tank The Rowa Was Worse Then A Elevated Parameter Of Phos.I Change 8 Gal A Week To Keep Phos Down No Gfo So Far So Good.
Steve good to here that you're seeing improvements. ROWA is a great product for those that need po4 reduction. You never actually needed it that's why you saw an adverse reaction. If you had a dozen fish in your tank you would benefit from it
I am not of fan of maintaing high po4 in a reef. I like to keep less than .06, however, I prefer to maintain a nitrate level from 5ppm-10ppm. I can easily strip the tank of nutrients and keep 0 levels but my colors are so much better with the nutrients.
Last edited:
I am seeing more improvements ..one thing was my fixture was way too low Vio helped me and par my tank now the light is sitting good. He also pointed out my sump is a mess which I gotta get a bucket vac to suck it out. He also pointed out my flow in certain areas like the corners is not good. I will buy small powerheads to put in the back corners. I been feeding the tank more since I have more fish,now I am getting some kind of algae.... I was thinking of adding rowa but im leary. Phos is not really bad .04 on hanna but for some reason I never see nitrate o-.25 I did my weekly 5 gal wc and changed the chemipure bag. If I add the rowa is 15grams good ..or should I leave it till the corals get full bright color before I start working on the algae I been keeping the alk at 9 also. I just don't wanna take a step back since things been getting better.
What kind of algae? With a po4 reading of .04 and your history of low nutrient faded corals, it's not a good idea to reduce algae by stripping po4. If you ran GFO, you would reverse your progress. There is usually some kind of clean up crew, or good old fashioned manual removal for various types of algae.
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
