Reef filtration media

[Chris31]

Coralcruze this is extremely interesting. What's your bio load like? What's your feeding schedule?


For those out there who do run carbon and go I have heard of some individuals running carbon every other month. Does anyone practice this method?

 

[coralcruze]

Coralcruze this is extremely interesting. What's your bio load like? What's your feeding schedule?

My tank is a 100 gal custom rimless tank that I personally built with additional 25 galon refugium/sump. I use an apex computer to automate feed to my tank daily via a dedicated refrigerator dispensing system that I built. So its hands off and I control bioload quite precisely using reef computer and bubble magus paristaltic pumps. according to bubble magus web site the accuracy is +/- 5%

automated feed:
*reef nutrition oyster feast = 5 ml/day
*reef nutrition phyto feast = 5 ml/day
*reef nutrition mysis shrimp = 5 ml/day
*reef nutrition brine shrimp = 5 ml/day

manual feed:
*Julian sprung sea veggies - 1 sheet every two-three days (mainly for my tangs)
*once a week - 1 whole jumbo shrimp sliced thin for direct coral feed. (mainly for my micromussa, acans, bowerbankii, welsi and fat head dentros)
*once a month - 1/4 tsp of goni powder and 1/4 tsp freeze dryed phyto and 1/4 tsp cyclop-ez (mainly for sea whips and gorgs and a goni)

supliment:
*acropower amino acids - 25 ml/wk
*seachem garlic enhancer - shrimp soak only
*calcium adjustments made with dow flake when needed but cal. reactor keeps it steady
*alkalinity adjustments are made with (baked) baking soda when needed but cal. reactor keeps it steady.
*magnesium adjustments are made using pure epsom salt but IO salt mix is pretty high out of the box.

Fish bioload:
*1 yellow tang 4-5" (fat hog ive had for over 5 years and is king of the tank)
*1 pacific blue tang 3"
*1 christmas wrase 2"
*1 yellow damsel 1"
*2 oreo black and white clowns (maited pair) 2" each
*2 firefish 1.5-2" long
*1 pigama cardinal
*1 kole tang

coral bioload:
I currently have over 70 differant SPS frags that were all grown out from small 1" pieces and most if not all are small colonies now. I also have over 35 LPS corals and a few softies...My tank is full.

I have a thrieving refugium with several kinds of macro algae that grows like wild fire that I have to sell off continuously in order to have room fro new growth. in that algae is a massive amount of copepods and amphipods of sorts that I'm sure makes thier way upto the tank which the fish and corals also feed on.

I will on occation change out the type of feed based on corals in the tank. Other than that nothing else goes in my tank, plain vanila instant ocean once a month water change. thats it!

 

[Chris31]

You mention the fuge with the massive algae growth. Not that it's exactly the same but it sounds similar to the pax bellum algae reactor. I know the creators of it are regulars on this forum and that reactor it something I have been considering. Based on what I have been told about this reactor and the research I have done you actually have to does phosphates in the tank since the reactor pull out so much. It almost like you don't need to run any carbon or Gfo with this algae reactor.

If anyone has further info about this algae reactor please share it! I'd love to learn more about it.

 

[coralcruze]

You mention the fuge with the massive algae growth. Not that it's exactly the same but it sounds similar to the pax bellum algae reactor. I know the creators of it are regulars on this forum and that reactor it something I have been considering. Based on what I have been told about this reactor and the research I have done you actually have to does phosphates in the tank since the reactor pull out so much. It almost like you don't need to run any carbon or Gfo with this algae reactor.

If anyone has further info about this algae reactor please share it! I'd love to learn more about it.

LOL, I know the inventor of the pax bellum (ARID) back when he used to work for house of fins in greenwich CT. However, I have never seen or used the reactor... I have read about it here. I think its probably a great unit for anyone who is not handy enough to build a proper refugium. I'd say go for it.

However, you can achieve the same/similar results but building a good refugium in your sump. main thing about growing macro is FLOW FLOW and FLOW. Did I mention FLOW? flow has to be right for the macro to be able to uptake nutrients and grow tissue. too fast a flow nutrients flow past the macro and little to no uptake occurs. Too slow a flow you risk stagnant dead spots and risk of low aeration to the macro.

So in my system I simply have three (horizontal) baffles that flow water into the refugium part of the sump where I have an LED light above. I use miracle mug as a base in the refugium as well. all of the water then exits a single centrally located (vertical) baffle. This insures full contact time with the flow. flow is about 300-500 GPH through the refugium. Hope this helps.

 

[coralcruze]

BTW, with all of the feed going into my tank currently I doubt I need any additional Po4 dosing. I think addiional PO4 dosing is another waste of money item. why not just feed more instead of dosing po4? thats what I do and the fish and corals thank me for it.

I know that the ARID does use some sort of suppliment to feed the macro but most food contains phosphates so to me it seems wasteful and have absolutely no problem growing the macro out...

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/sale-trade/170225-3-types-macro-algae.html

redfield ratio is often overlooked in the hobby. this is the ratio found in all the worlds oceans of carbon: nitrates: phosphates = 106:16:1 so you always want some po4 and no3 in your system

 

[coralcruze]

the aid of a bio pellet reactor goes a long way in helping you rid of the use of GFO and the need for carbon in case I didn't mention it befor.

 

[Chris31]

Wow you bring up a interesting point with the food. I deff agree over feeding can raise your po4. My question is do foods contain other harmful elements that could harm the tank by feeding to much?

 

[coralcruze]

Wow you bring up a interesting point with the food. I deff agree over feeding can raise your po4. My question is do foods contain other harmful elements that could harm the tank by feeding to much?

I suppose maybe some foods out there do. However, all food will turn into NO3 and PO4 when they decompose. Challenge is how to deliver protiens, minerals, vitamins, anti oxidents ect present in decomposed food particles without fouling up your water, reducing oxygen ect. A good protien skimmer removed protiens. The idea is that it removes the FOOD (thats right, I said food) before it is allowed to add to NO3. From what I understand protein skimmers do nothing to reduce PO4. I would not advocate to turning off your protein skimmer without a good system in place that can remove excess particles but without a doubt protien skimmers take out FOOD from the water. The very thing we are puting into the tank in the first place. I have my reef computer turn off my PS for 1.5 hours after each feed cycle when feeding a liquid feed. Otherwise its a waste of $$$. The trick is to increase micro/macro fauna to uptake those componenets. one way to do this is Live rock and sand or water volume. The Ocean does just that which allows biodiversity that cant be duplicated in a home aquarium. So we have to rely on biodiversity in concentrations like those that live on bio-pellets or macro and micro algae. Hair algae for example is awesome at this. algae scrubbers is a great way also. My expierience has shown that several methods are needed to take up enough compounds to a proper level in a tank.

point is STOP the GFO and CARBON addiction

Stop giving your hard earned money to BRS

 

[coralcruze]

here is a tank with no protien skimmer... very interesting vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAqCZlR_Un8

 

[NYfishies]

Hey Coralcruze,

I am following your posts and find them to be very interesting. I am very new to the salt water hobby (tank is just 2 months old) and I am doing my best to learn the ins and outs. It appears like you have a different way of doing things than the masses which I like and appreciate. If you wouldn't mind I would like to pick your brain some.

Do you have a photo of your refugium?

In the mail yesterday I received my LED which I will use for it. I have a NUVO 40 all-in-one tank that has chambers in the back which you can build out a small refugium. The LED is the AUQA Gadget - MagnaFuge LED Refugium Light and the algea will grow within the media basket AUQA Gadget - CustomCaddy Media Basket. Both made by Innovative Marine (I can't post the links to these since i don't have 5 posts on this forum yet!). My plan is to use a mechanical sponge in the top chamber and then remove the bottom divider to make a larger chamber at the bottom where I will grow the algae. The light will be on the back of the tank flush against the glass positioned facing the algae. The overflow from the display will fall onto the mechanical sponge and then down into the algae chamber and flushed out of the bottom. I hope for a 40 gallon tank this will be effective enough?

You say that you sell your algae. Perhaps you would be interested in selling me some? If not, where else can I get good algae to grow in Manhattan?

Thanks for you help!

Our plan is to grow corals just as you have from the frags. We have about 8 in there now. We also have 2 juvenile clowns, a juvenile yellow watchman goby and a juvenile bangai cardinal.

 

[coralcruze]

NYfishies... PM'ed yah

 

[coralcruze]

Hey Coralcruze,

I am following your posts and find them to be very interesting. I am very new to the salt water hobby (tank is just 2 months old) and I am doing my best to learn the ins and outs. It appears like you have a different way of doing things than the masses which I like and appreciate. If you wouldn't mind I would like to pick your brain some.

Do you have a photo of your refugium?

In the mail yesterday I received my LED which I will use for it. I have a NUVO 40 all-in-one tank that has chambers in the back which you can build out a small refugium. The LED is the AUQA Gadget - MagnaFuge LED Refugium Light and the algea will grow within the media basket AUQA Gadget - CustomCaddy Media Basket. Both made by Innovative Marine (I can't post the links to these since i don't have 5 posts on this forum yet!). My plan is to use a mechanical sponge in the top chamber and then remove the bottom divider to make a larger chamber at the bottom where I will grow the algae. The light will be on the back of the tank flush against the glass positioned facing the algae. The overflow from the display will fall onto the mechanical sponge and then down into the algae chamber and flushed out of the bottom. I hope for a 40 gallon tank this will be effective enough?

You say that you sell your algae. Perhaps you would be interested in selling me some? If not, where else can I get good algae to grow in Manhattan?

Thanks for you help!

Our plan is to grow corals just as you have from the frags. We have about 8 in there now. We also have 2 juvenile clowns, a juvenile yellow watchman goby and a juvenile bangai cardinal.

first, welcome to this amazing hobby. second thats a nice system and setup you got there. Congrats!

that caddy looks awesome but I didn't see if it comes with a sponge? you will want a sponge or filter floss to prevent broken macro and debree from re-entering your tank. Thats light should be good. as it grows and it will you will need to either get rid of it to keep it growing or expand the growout area within the aquagaget. I don't see anything wrong with your setup and seems that it would be fine as a starter tank. as you move through the hobby you may want to consider ways to automate chores and this is where you will need to consider a sump for increased water volume and a place for more reactors and gadgets. however, manual is where we all start. go slow and enjoy every bit of it.

 

[vio]

found and read this thread. Very informative.
I think , the goal is how to balance PO4 in the safe, healthy way, steady and economical way. That everybody dream, i am also pro Flow, even in sump, i think that one of the key for Macro Algae, About Active Carbon i am NOT 100 % sure if i would eliminate , list for now, GFO yes have to go out, Protein Skimmer i would keep, is true , remove some good stuff from tank, but also do a very good job, is the only one mechanical filter that remove bad stuff out, also,increase the oxygen, i can see my PH go down if pump do not perform well (clog or need to be clean) in special when run Calcium reactor. I like to run my Bio-pellets also (1/2) they suggest. I like to keep some sand also, i just remove 1/2 out, i consider sand "luxury" , is unbelievable how much Detritus can hold, i keep just to cover the bottom tank, also Aquascape is anther issue, how to let the water flow and maintain space for cleaning sand. In special when try to keep only SPS.

 

[coralcruze]

VIO is right... we need some NO3 and PO4 in our tanks. strip it down to a sterile tank without these components and your corals will start losing color and die. 16:1 ratio no3: Po4 is an idea balance as described by the redfield ratio and as exists in the worlds oceans in living and non living matter. Most agree that keeping NO3 around 5 PPM or under is ideal. So, No3 at 5 would be No3 of 5 is Po4 of .3 according to redfield ratio. I'm currently at 1.5 as tested on the Red Sea Nitrate Pro test kit. My current Po4 is higher than I would like at 1.9 but it takes about 5-6 months in my tank for Po4 to reach thatose levels. My bio reactor does a good job with this. however it did take me quite a while to get the Bio pellets reactor growing the bacteria to uptake the No3 and Po4. but wow once it did it only enhanced the other systems I have in place. If I play with the water flow out of the bio pellet reactor I would bet I can reduce the Po4 so that it stays around .01 rather than slowly increasing to .20 over a 4-5 month time. I could also lower my food and bioload delivered to the tank. So I'm not completely there yet where I can say its hands off and tank is at 16:1 ratio.

 

[NYfishies]

first, welcome to this amazing hobby. second thats a nice system and setup you got there. Congrats!

that caddy looks awesome but I didn't see if it comes with a sponge? you will want a sponge or filter floss to prevent broken macro and debree from re-entering your tank. Thats light should be good. as it grows and it will you will need to either get rid of it to keep it growing or expand the growout area within the aquagaget. I don't see anything wrong with your setup and seems that it would be fine as a starter tank. as you move through the hobby you may want to consider ways to automate chores and this is where you will need to consider a sump for increased water volume and a place for more reactors and gadgets. however, manual is where we all start. go slow and enjoy every bit of it.

There is a sponge that I planned to put at the top of the media basket. Do I need one at the bottom? The water will flows from top to bottom.

Is there any other ways to "Naturally" feed your fish such as the copepods and amphipods?

Wish I had room for a sump. My apartment is small!

 

[coralcruze]

from my understanding of Bio reactors (and I am a NewBee with Bio-pellets - only 1.5 years) The bacteria that grows in them do a great job with No3 but not as good with Po4. perhaps others can correct me if I'm wrong? Macro and Micro algae is great with Po4 uptake so having a system to uptake both is ideal.

 

[coralcruze]

There is a sponge that I planned to put at the top of the media basket. Do I need one at the bottom? The water will flows from top to bottom.

Is there any other ways to "Naturally" feed your fish such as the copepods and amphipods?

Wish I had room for a sump. My apartment is small!

reef nutrition live tiger pods is the easiest and an awesome way. They are not cheap but I do seed my tank with them and they live in my refugium and my main tank. Encapsulated arthemia and growing your own bryne shrimp is another way. If you have the patients to grow out rotifers... go for it, but they require maintenance and some space. growing live phyto is easy but here again requires some space. with rotifers and phyto it is conseivable to be able to automate fresh live feed of this type to your tank. There is definately a benefit to feeding live VS. dead feed. After 16 years, I'm not there yet.

I too am limited in space. Otherwise I would already have an automated water mixing and water changing station as well as several algae scrubbers and other things that I want to try as well, like those mentioned above. until then I make due with the space I have.

Oh if the aquagadget is top down flow... than put a sponge only at the bottom. let the macro filter what comes in at the top. also flow is much more important than light IMHO when it comes to macro. Can you control flow through the filter? slow flow = long contact time for uptake. whats the rated GPH for the pump you get with your tank? the one that pumps water to and from your rear chambers? remember its more important to have high flow in the display tank and slow flow in the sump. so powerheads help in the display if the system does not come with any. However, you won't need a large pump for circulation between your tank and chambers.

 

[NYfishies]

reef nutrition live tiger pods is the easiest and an awesome way. They are not cheap but I do seed my tank with them and they live in my refugium and my main tank. Encapsulated arthemia and growing your own bryne shrimp is another way. If you have the patients to grow out rotifers... go for it, but they require maintenance and some space. growing live phyto is easy but here again requires some space. with rotifers and phyto it is conseivable to be able to automate fresh live feed of this type to your tank. There is definately a benefit to feeding live VS. dead feed. After 16 years, I'm not there yet.

I too am limited in space. Otherwise I would already have an automated water mixing and water changing station as well as several algae scrubbers and other things that I want to try as well, like those mentioned above. until then I make due with the space I have.

Oh if the aquagadget is top down flow... than put a sponge only at the bottom. let the macro filter what comes in at the top. also flow is much more important than light IMHO when it comes to macro. Can you control flow through the filter? slow flow = long contact time for uptake. whats the rated GPH for the pump you get with your tank? the one that pumps water to and from your rear chambers? remember its more important to have high flow in the display tank and slow flow in the sump. so powerheads help in the display if the system does not come with any. However, you won't need a large pump for circulation between your tank and chambers.

The tigger pods stay alive even in that bottle they come in? When you say you seed your tank with them - what do you mean? Currently I feed my fish pellets and mysis shrimp. I would like to add to their diet with actual live food.

The sponge wont trap the pods from entering the tank? You cannot control the flow into the media basket as it is simply the overflow from the tank so it basically just pours into the media basket. The pump is 476 GPH.

At the moment I do not have a wavemaker in the DT as I am waiting for Neptune to come out with theirs. I am concerned though that they wont bring it out for another 6 months or so. I just have no idea if I have enough flow or not as it is. I nearly bought a MP10 last week before I found out about the Neptune WAV.

 

[vio]

from my understanding of Bio reactors (and I am a NewBee with Bio-pellets - only 1.5 years) The bacteria that grows in them do a great job with No3 but not as good with Po4. perhaps others can correct me if I'm wrong? Macro and Micro algae is great with Po4 uptake so having a system to uptake both is ideal.

they work good for PO4 also, u may have to "Balance" , if u got your Nitrate so low, that good, buy this........http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewi...e&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=adwordsfroogle& most LFS they have, keep add like they suggest 5ml/ until u see PO4 start to go down, when PO4 go down (close to zero) stop it, don't take my word, Google, the new Bio-Pellets ( "All in one" ) work dif. is not 16 to 1 , they report a way better efficiency, see one of my DIY reactor, i just made. I try to keep under control (low PO4) by using Bio-Pellets and Macro Algae only on 99% SPS tank. When you run Bio-Pellets to run a Protein Skimmer it is a MUST. Vio

 

[lnevo]

The tigger pods stay alive even in that bottle they come in? When you say you seed your tank with them - what do you mean? Currently I feed my fish pellets and mysis shrimp. I would like to add to their diet with actual live food.

The sponge wont trap the pods from entering the tank? You cannot control the flow into the media basket as it is simply the overflow from the tank so it basically just pours into the media basket. The pump is 476 GPH.

At the moment I do not have a wavemaker in the DT as I am waiting for Neptune to come out with theirs. I am concerned though that they wont bring it out for another 6 months or so. I just have no idea if I have enough flow or not as it is. I nearly bought a MP10 last week before I found out about the Neptune WAV.

Yes tiger pods stay alive in the bottle you can see them swimming around. If you have a refugium area they will hide in the rock/macro and multiply. Eventually some will make it into the DT.

These are good for fish that only eat pods. If you want to add live food for your other fish consider buying blackworms at your LFS. You can culture them at home too pretty easily. You can also culture brine shrimp.

Corals need flow. The return pump is not enough. If you saving your money for the WAV go buy a jaebo in the meantime. You'll be able to flip it or have it as a backup, mixing, qt, etc.