problem with 20 l saltwater tank

[oro50]

So i am wondering what lfs means?
Continuing from starting a saltwater tank
About a month now since the start of the cycling process
I thought that ro water could be bought at a grocery store.
The employees just keep pointing me to spring water?
Have no idea how i am going to get ro water without paying for a filter.

 

[Rookie2reef]

I'm pretty sure you can buy from Lfs Manhattan aquariums

 

[thirty6]

+1
It is a smaller tank and getting a small to unit is a good solid purchase that can make life easier for you in long run

 

[edd]

most bottled water is ro water, read the bottle. you can also buy distilled water at your local super market, that is supposed to be equivalent to rodi water.
distilled would be a better choice if you can't find rodi.

 

[oro50]

Someone told me that distilled water or water I can buy at the local super market was bad for other reasons, such as that it contains a-lot of iron?

Anyway though, I did a new change anyway with my tank. To deal with this ammonia overload, I did another water change. 80% of the water was changed. Most of it is new tap water, but it was conditioned first for a bit before being poured in. 5 gallons of this new water is also from Fauna's RO/DI unit.

I'll test in a few hours

 

[edd]

water conditioner removes chlorine.
distilled and rodi water is the purest form of water.
why ask for all this advise, when it seems like you do what you want anyway.
numerous members told you not to use tap water.

 

[oro50]

Even with this massive water change. I just did a an ammonia test. It still looked like it was at the 8ppm range?
Maybe a little less, but not really.

I will leave it be now, and see in the next few days.

 

[oro50]

Uh, I did what the fish employee suggested I do right now. My tank now does have some RO water in it.
Yet to fill up the rest of the tank right now, I mostly just have tap water.
Eventually I might have all RO water in it.
Anyway will see if it goes down in a few days. I won't add anymore ammonia to the tank.

 

[oro50]

As I stated earlier too, 80% of the water that was loaded with ammonia before has been removed. I did this, because the fish employee at Fauna suggested I do so.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

Do you have any

Live rock in the tank?
Live sand in the tank?
Fish in the tank?

Tap water will work for some but not for others, thats why its advisable to use RODI water to lessen the chance of running into problems down the road

It seems to me you need to do alot of research on this hobby. Please do it and learn before adding anything else to the tank.

Also get yourself good test kits ( such as red sea pro or salifert) and refractometer (to ensure proper salinity level)

 

[oro50]

Yes i have had live rock in the tank now for close to a month now. Though not at the start, i have 15 lbs in it now, as of last sunday. For the three weeks before that, i had 10lbs of cured live rock. All live rock in the tank now was bought cured.
Live sand was in the tank after the second or third day. I am now close to day 30 i think.
Again 80% OF THE loaded ammonia water was removed two hours ago. When i tested it just now still seemed to be very dark green. Thus i will not put in another drop of the pure, and see if it goes down over the next few days. I hope most of the bacteria isnt dead, but ill see.

 

[oro50]

Oh you asked about fish. No i have been doing a fishless cycle, i didnt want to knowingly hurt a living thing during this process.

 

[evoIX_Reefer]

This is the second thread besides a repost in a different section.

I really suggest reading in the newbie forum. Go to nano-reef.com and read the newbie forum there as well.

One thing about the SW hobby is to learn and learning quickly will only help you and your wallet.

The bad thing about type of water in the SW hobby is if your not going to use a ro/di system than you run the risk of "contaminated" water that can stick into your live rock and you'll see the affects of taking the shortcuts in the future. Hair algae, diatoms, dino, etc from high phosphates, etc.

Read over the suggested newbie threads about setting up a tank. What is needed and why they are needed, take a look at your setup and figure out what you know you can keep and if you have second guesses than feel free to ask.

It doesn't sound like you'll have much success if your not taking atleast those steps first. You'll be on here in a month or two with stories of dead livestock and algae problems.

Please make sure you inspect your fish purchases, read about the fish you want to purchase ahead of time (liveaquaria.com) for their requirements and reef forums for additional tips.

Acclimation is best to have a quarantine setup but not to make assumptions but i doubt that will be done in this case. Float for temp balance then use drip acclimation process for salinity adjustment for atleast 1-2 hours before dumping your fish into the tank. Most LFSs will have lower than desired SG so it's necessary to go slow. Do not dose the content of the bag into your tank because they could also use copper which will kill inverts. Lights out so it won't shock your new introductions as well.

Without giving you much more help, please read to feel more confident what you are getting into.

Again, GL!

 

[BKLYNREEF123]

Dear OP

This is a wonderful hobby, however it requires lots of patience, research learning, and unfortunately money. IMO if you are not willing to invest in an RODI unit you should not be in the hobby in the first place. After all good 0 TDS water is the foundation of proper water chemistry. The price of an RODI filter is far less than what you would spend for distilled water or RODI water from a LFS in the long run. In addition it is much easier to make RODI water at home then to carry containers of water back and forth from the LFS or the grocery store. Do your homework and avoid longterm problems in the future.


Welcome to reef keeping

 

[Cu455]

imo if you are not willing to invest in an rodi unit you should not be in the hobby in the first place.

-1

 

[oro50]

Yeah I agree about the RO/DI

Yeah from what I read, I agree that a RO/DI system is best.

With that said, a-lot of my cautiousness with money, is just due to the shaky economy we all still live in.

With that said, yeah I expect to get one by the end of the week.

By the end of this week, will mark 5 weeks since I started cycling, meaning that I have already cycled my present tank for a little more than a month now.

With that said, after doing a big water change, 80% of the water. I initially noticed that my ammonia concentration was still pretty high, very dark green still, but within approximately a day, that green figure went to either very very light green/yellow or yellow

I also got a nitrite reading about 2 ppms I think. I also got a nitrate reading. I think about 80 ppm maybe a little less.

With that said, I then added a little bit of pure ammonia. I believe I added about a 1/8th of pure ammonia. I waited another 24 hours, and did a ammonia test. Again nearly light/green yellow or yellow?

So this is how I added ammonia for the last four weeks for the most part, with pure ammonia chloride.

With that said at this point, after getting the yellow or very light green/yellowish reading today, I have stopped this process. I added a bit of fish food though.
I will basically let the tank do it's thing for another week and then I plan to after doing one last big water change, and adding mostly RO/DI water, I will then put in my first fish.

My question though is this right now.
I read from another aquarium forum, that due to the amount of time I have already put in doing a fishless cycle, and because I just plan on adding one live fish, I might have colonies of bacteria that are meant for a much bigger set of fish, then I plan to put in right now. I read then that some of the good bacteria I took my time to grow, then might die and thus produce a-lot of ammonia in the tank?

Thus my question is, should I check ammonia nitrite and nitrate levels once the fish is in there, every other day at the start, or just every week?

I would hate to feel that my new fish got permanently hurt, after taking so much time to cycle my tank, due again to over preparing I guess so to speak?

 

[fredro]

i think the problem, if i am correct, is that after you initially started the cycle with the ammonia, you continued to keep adding ammonia to the tank on a regular frequent basis. After 5 weeks into a cycle the ammonia level should have come and gone...along with the nitrites and nitrates for that matter. Did you continue to keep adding and adding ammonia?

 

[ReefWreak]

My recommendation:

Stop adding ammonia. Wait until current ammonia level reaches 0/undetectable. Then you can start adding a clean up crew and/or a fish, which will reduce the bacteria colony that you've been building, but it will right-size it for the load you're putting on them.

I think the point you brought up was a discussion I had with one of the guys at Manhattan Aquariums the other week, which was that whatever you cycle, that bioload won't be the same as whatever fishes you're adding.

Your other point is that the bacteria you've been setting up for a huge bioload will die when they don't get a huge bioload. They will to some extent, but I don't think their deaths will add much ammonia or other pollutants to the tank. They'll be quickly processed to nitrates.

I think you need to do a big water change (~25-50%) to get those nitrates down (80ppm is HIGH), and then you can add a cleanup crew and a fish.

Are you getting algae growth at all? In my discussion with the guy at the LFS, his indication of the end of a cycle was algae proliferation. I missed that in my cycle, because I was intentionally leaving the lights off. That worked to keep algae from growing, but it made the nitrates build up and not get reduced into biomass that could be removed or at least digested by a cleanup crew. So after that conversation, I turned my lights on, and my nitrates started decreasing while the algae started growing. That's when I also added cheatomorpha macro algae and a few astrea snails and hermit crabs.

 

[oro50]

Continuation of Saltwater cycle period

Um yeah,
So I'm forgetting what part I left off now.

Ok so yeah to answer your first question. I did add pure ammonia almost every 24 hours. However it was just a bit for most of the time I've been cycling this tank so far, (which is now going into it's fifth week).

However twice, so far yes I dumped maybe a bit more than a bit )))) LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet I did it because I was experimenting, and I thought maybe more ammonia would promote the bacteria colonies already in the tank that eat up ammonia, to grow faster?

Anyway long story short, I already did a 80% water change. I did this on Friday,

and yes because I do not own a RO/DI unit right now at the moment, most of the new water was tap water, but I conditioned it first, before adding into what remained of the original leftover 20% tank water

Finally I then added five gallons worth of RO/DI water I bought directly from Fluval on 86st (a pet and fish store). I wanted more, but I could only carry so much.

I then tested the water for ammonia, it was still dark green.

Then I waited another 24 hours, I tested it again, it was now very very light green/yellow or yellow. I did a nitrite test this day too, and it implied it was somewhere around 2ppm?
This is also when I did the nitrate test, and I thought it was 80ppm it could have been less?

which indicates almost 0 or 0 ammonia

Then I added just a touch more pure ammonia. Waited another day , and did a test again, and it was still nearly yellow or yellow.

At this point on Sunday, I stopped adding and will not add anymore pure ammonia to the tank (or maybe just little bit's every 24 hours). However I did add some fish food last night.

I will do a test again later and see the results.

I plan on waiting out this week. Then near the end or the end of this week get a RO/DI unit, and start making RO/DI water. When I think I have most of it ready, I'm going to put as much as I can, after a say 85% water change?

Then I feel I can put in a fish. Yes I plan on adding one guy at a time. Probably only for one guy. I've been cautious I think throughout this whole process so far, I might as well do the same during this finishing up process.

Later on, I might add corals, but I'll come to that road if and when it comes.

 

[ReefWreak]

Stop adding ammonia. Only add food once to the tank (since you don't have anything eating it but bacteria). Watch the food. If you see the food wherever it settles, i.e. nothing has consumed/eaten it, it is still breaking down through bacteria. That will keep your bacteria going for a long time.

This is ultimately why people struggle with nitrates forever once they have an established tank, because food will fall somewhere (or even fish poop or other detritus) and will just sit being consumed by bacteria, being converted to ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

So yea, do your water changes, especially once you have an RO/DI system going, and stop adding other crap to the tank. No ammonia, no more food. Then slowly start adding fish(es) in an order that will will ensure they won't kill each other (most passive first, most aggressive last).