Stores, livestock and care rant!

[CleanYourTank11]

Hi,

I'll keep this short and sweet (EDIT, sorry kind of went on a rant after all). Stores, I'm not naming any specific and there are some I haven't been to so I cannot speak on them all. Unfortunately the new thing in our area (north east) is cutting everyone's throat on pricing and ruining the market. Which means trans shipping livestock and bringing in bad quality (mostly) is basically the only way stores can compete with each other.

Some stores treat yadda yadda yadda, basically just creating super strains of pathogens and diseases etc and it's hurting our hobby. Truth be told not everyone should be able to get everything they want. I want to drive a new lambo but you know what the market allows me to drive a pre used Toyota, it is what it is. No one is changing that so why try and change a different market.

I have saw many people come and go because the "hobby is impossible", NO your just buying completely unhealthy specimens and haven't been in the hobby long enough to have enough experience to keep and or properly diagnose and treat the livestock that's in bad shape and almost destined to perish. Not to mention the store helping you is probably just as un educated. Why stores want to be greedy and make $1 or 2 on fish and just move a ton of quantity is stupid, selfish and hurting the hobby as a whole.

Eventually the good stores won't be around and you guys can keep buying the crappy livestock that we enabled these guys to sell. I know for 10000000% fact that there are stores retailing stuff for way below the cost that wholesalers are getting it. Hmmmmm, doesn't make sense but hey more power to the guy that wants to spend a cheap price multiple times for the same fish instead of purchasing one of quality the first time.

Stores, if your going to get cheap stuff and sell cheap stuff the least you can do it dip corals and do the some what of the right thing for the consumers buying your stuff. A few weeks in a row I got stuff for clients from a store in Brooklyn and between the flat worms and now the zoa eating nudis I'm ready to burn the place down to the ground!!!!!!!!! I just might after I finish these clients today...I'm dipping corals no matter what but prove is in the pudding, these stores and vendors basically skating on by in this world by purchasing cheap stuff and not even doing the least bit of work to ensure the Health of the specimen.

Its amazing how much of a poop show this hobby has turned into over the last handful of years. I'm a young guy doing this half my life and what I personally have witnessed is frigging insane. I can't imagine what the few guys in this over 20+ years feel about it. Saddest part other then hurting the livestock is most of the real, seasoned reputable people in this hobby won't even come on and give their knowledge anymore because the lack of education and commitment on stores and vendors part to do right for the hobby. The amount of bs "facts" I hear spewed out in stores is horrendous, I seriously might as well be shopping in the back of a super wal mart for fish and listen to there advice.

Last note, if your a Joe schmo(private or store-many store owners shouldn't be given information out) selling fish and coral and can't educate yourself enough to treat the problem and or can't afford to treat for the entire treatment do us all a favor and don't even waste time pretending your doing the right thing by anyone or trying to help the livestock your selling.

I feel like this hobby is as much bs as this past election.

Rant over, thanks to everyone that actually read this.

 

[arnaldolex]

I am actually glad some of the vendors sell corals for cheap and in my experience that doesnt mean the corals are sick. I really dont enjoy paying 60 bucks for a 1 inch frag when i can buy the colony for 25 bucks . Ive been to wholesale spots with friends and dont find it right for someone to pay 35 bucks for a coral and sell it for 120, thats great for the vendor but not us regular consumers. I have been to petstores not to name any names that wanted 60 bucks for a blood shrimp, ive been to my regular stores and have bought them for 15 bucks. I guess you feel that way because you are a vendor and me because i am a average consumer.

 

[CleanYourTank11]

I'm a vendor????? Lol
Have you saw me try and sell anything here, if so let me know....I'm not saying rape people I'm saying do the right thing by the hobby and other stores. One or two stores cutting throats isn't helping anything or anyone... I deal with zoos, with consumers(myself),aquariums and clients because I do that for a living. By no means am I saying mark something up 200%, my whole thing is TO DO RIGHT BY THE ANIMALS AND HOBBY.
Whoever wants to talk back and forth give me 30 minutes to finish this pond and you can call me. It's a problem when m wholesale guy is paying $10 for a said item and the retail store is selling it for $5, in that case legit loosing money to bring in people to buy other items.

Should I jump on the band wagon and buy cheap stuff to give my to maintenance clients, they way you'd Tate's your response

 

[CleanYourTank11]

Sorry*
The way you stated your response would me be buying cheap trans ship and selling at a ridiculous price.... I buy good quality and I sell it for what it's supposed to sell for. No more no less why because that's the market and that's the right thing to do

 

[aaron23]

I'm not saying you're wrong by any means. There are issues with all types of diseases when we're talking about shipping masses of fish from here or there.

The fish and coral market is about supply and demand as it always has been. If nobody wants the good the price will drop and so forth.

Have you ever seen the price of that homewrecker coral? its >$1,000 for a 1/2" frag and people scoop that up like candy. I wonder why coral prices are so high?

 

[salpet]

price gouging should not be the norm

 

[CleanYourTank11]

Of course everyone wants to save when they can, this hobby is expensive, I totally get it. It's more so the fact that these stores normally get new people buying from them strictly due to the advertised low price and then give these new people bad stock in which these guys turn around and tell their friends oh the saltwater hobby is impossible everything dies. I hear this just about everyday in my travels.

All I'm saying is keep the market where the market should be and let the quality bring the customers not the cheap prices. The least a store can do if transshipping is dip and treat all livestock with the best care and most do not and want to act like they are your best friend because they have the best price. Sorry no your a skeemer and taking advantage of more than likely people who don't know better. 9 out of 10 people I know would rather buy better quality fish which more than likely isn't the cheaper one. Of course there are exceptions.

I've worked in retail and I've worked for the reputable aquarium maintenance companies around NYC, I left due to them speaking of exactly what arnaldo said, paying a said price and marking it up crazy, that's just as much bs aa the cheap trans ship thing.

Even better, a lot of people on this site shop in MY STORE and by MY STORE I mean the store I along with one other guy built from the ground up. You don't associate me with it and have no idea what store I'm talking about. Why? Because as soon as I saw the way the guy wanted to conduct business I packed up my stuff and left. Just to show point and principal I for one am not in it for the money, I want to make this hobby better and keep it going as long as possible and guys like that just hurt he hobby. The store is still open and people speak highly of it when honestly it's complete garbage. Amazing what good talking and a front can bring you.

All in all you get what you pay for and when your paying pennies for something that should be dollars more than likely it's going to end up bad for you.
Think about how many black tangs went into aquariums that hey shouldn't have and never normally would of have because they went from being un reachable to the average hobbyists at $500 to reachable for almost anyone for $200.

These things aren't made on a product line, keep selling them cheap to people not qualified and eventually you can kiss it goodbye.

 

[arnaldolex]

so your upset that petstores are giving the consumers great prices but your supplier is giving you high price maybe you need a diff supplier. Tell them that there price is way to high they need to cut it lol. I am glad that we live in america and a store owner can charge what they desire for any product that being expensive or cheap and am glad that not everyone is trying to make a 200 percent profit. I and almost any reefer i know will be glad to pay 200 dollers for a tang instead of 500, but hey to each his own if you rather pay 500 for that tang thats on you.

 

[CleanYourTank11]

Haha... only thing I'm upset at is stores claiming to be your best friend, ruining the hobby and selling bad stock... did you not read about the zoa eating nudi and flat worms??? If you can't read then I can't talk to you. If you want to come at me personally please let me know so I can give you my number and not waste other people's time reading the bs.

Dude your nuts, I was and can be that store. I can get transship every week myself and sell very easily if I wanted to. I don't because that hurts the hobby. Basically your telling me to go get transship and call you with my cheap prices. Right? Because cheap means good to you.

Your not comprehending any of this thread.

Here nice and simple for you, if your going to buy cheap stuff and sell cheap stuff make sure it's healthy. That's the whole point, no one is going to buy cheap stuff and give it the right care because now it's work for them and not the easy cheap sell...

 

[salpet]

you are generalizing. all the stores that i have been to have healthy specimens and not so healthy ones its up to the individual to know what he is purchasing you can go to a store in greenwich ant pay 150 bucks for 5 mushrooms and then to to the bronx and get the same thing for 30 bucks so price gougers are every were lower your prices and you wont have anything to ***** about.(and just because its cheap does not mean that its junk.

 

[piranhapat]

you are generalizing. All the stores that i have been to have healthy specimens and not so healthy ones its up to the individual to know what he is purchasing you can go to a store in greenwich ant pay 150 bucks for 5 mushrooms and then to to the bronx and get the same thing for 30 bucks so price gougers are every were lower your prices and you wont have anything to ***** about.(and just because its cheap does not mean that its junk.

+ 1

 

[Mattl22]

Clean ur tank u obviously have an ax to grind I buy fish on for cheap almost exclusively when on sale and 90% where healthy for example still have 6 $18 lytail anthais living in my tank going on 8 months
Buying fish is a learning curve for sure but it's up to buyer to research ask to see fish closely inspect fish for signs disease
Im not sure what ur complaining about cheap fish?



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[Mattl22]

Of course lose fish from time to time that happens no matter where u get fish from


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[B.BASH]

Personally I have had better success with certain lfs that has higher prices. The livestock usually seems to be healthier. At least two places i can think of that have low prices I've had a higher than average mortality rate and it's harder to find a healthy looking fish.

 

[b-ridge]

I'm just curious but who's to say these "higher" lfs aren't buying/transhipping fish also and just putting a higher price on them? How would we know? Be easy to order fish. Hike up the price and just because it has a higher price makes it better/healthier? Sounds like your giving your lfs a reason now to raise prices no matter where fish come from since people equate healthy fish with price.

 

[cmantis]

I don't want to be any part of this debate but I will say that all LFS purchase the vast majority of their fish and corals from the same place. I think (if I am not mistaken) the OPs point was what care is devoted to the livestock prior to sale and advice given to the customer at the time of sale is important in choosing where to shop.

 

[thomashtom]

Lfs

The problem i have with some LFS is that they bring in fish and are willing to sell them the same day and justify it because of a slightly lower price. I am not talking cheap fish here. I am talking about expensive delicate fish. If people buy a fish that was just shipped in there is a good chance that fish will die. Alot of these fish are in bags for 24 hrs plus.

 

[cmantis]

I actually don't have a problem with this as I worry more about the filtration and possible diseases that a fish or coral has been exposed to before reaching my tank. At least if it just came in and even offered for reduced price I can evaluate my options and chances. The more systems they go through from exporter, wholesalers and lfs the greater risks I believe. Again it really comes down to how a lfs manages their stock. I have learned all to well about the perils of this hobby from ich, fungal infections, bubble algae, aptasia and so on to unfortunately or fortunately learn a great deal from it. Again I said I don't want to be a part of this debate I will leave it at this but think this could be a healthy topic for discussion and as I probably have significant knowledge of this from each step of process hope this can remain objective.

 

[CleanYourTank11]

I will come back shortly and rephrase what I really meant. I personally did not come off right and started some confusion. Right off the bat I do not think cheap fish are a bad and expensive fish are good, I am sorry if I portrayed that.

I also do not want people scared of the hobby due to prices or stores marking livestock up insane proportions. I just want the truth and honesty on livestock and what has or hasn't been
Done. Personally I know what to look for etc etc but many people do not and then it leaves A bad taste in there mouth when they are 5 yellow tangs deep and or that one last polyp colony just infected there other 15 colonies.


Cmantis hit it right on the head though.

 

[afernandez]

well it all starts with a little EDUCATION & RESEARCH.

we are living in great times where information is literally available in a matter of seconds 24hrs 7days a week.

would you drive a car without knowing how to drive? i don't think so.

I've been doing this for 12+ years and its always been best practices to
QT EVERYTHING NO MATTER THE SOURCE! (Fish Corals EVERYTHING!)

my .02