Manufacturer Claims and Legalities- Do they match some hobbyist behaviors?

[tunicata]

Hello Folks,
I have a few questions/curiousitites where I feel the diversity of experiences on this board may help to shed more information on*.

1. Has anyone used an LED fixture for 50,000 hours or 5 years and NOT noticed a spectrum change and/or a change in performance to your standards prior?
I ask this one because I know many folks talk about LEDs and their greatness (beyond the basic bioluminescence i.e. color pop) but most folks I know and at least from timelines I see across a variety of hobbyist and research boards...many do not actually hold on to the same fixture for anywhere near that many hours/time frame without a changeout or upgrade or some deviation which disallows the ability to track information towards the LED industry claim. I ask this question from curiosity, not as a hater.

2. Pumps/powerheads...has any one noticed the fact that the resale threads for Ecotech i.e. MP40 and Maxspect Gyre typically say "new motor' or "new/extra wetside" or something akin to recently serviced???
If you are the 1st owner of an MP or Gyre (or whatever else) and within the 1 yr warranty have had something as MAJOR as a wetside (replacement cost of at least $75 not including tax/shipping) or a motor (not sure of the cost for a gyre motor) then what level of comfort do you think I as the potential 2nd owner have with this product considering the warranty is likely invalid once you resell it to me? Considering the fact that hobbyists to hobbyist is not typically considered as a valid authorized reseller...I would have to HOPE that IF and ONLY IF you still have warranty privileges that you allow me as the 2nd owner to use it THROUGH YOU. Otherwise...I am stuck with a product that is already known to have defects that need to be addressed within 1-3 years.


So, given #1 and 2, how do people ethically sell/resell 'important' (you define that, but I am referring to items that could impact whether or not your organisms live/your home stays intact) reef equipment??

I am contemplating these things as I make a 6-8mos long build to a 300g tank and 100g sump in my basement. This move allows me the opportunity to work hard to get sales, to track and redefine for myself, what is worth buying used and not, etc.

Obviously, I am finding that most of the integral stuff...simply may not be worth buying used. However, of course, folks are definitely still reselling at a cost that is in my opinion, giving the risk, too high.


*Keep in mind I said information, I did not say facts vs opinion or real/sound research, etc.

 

[marrone]

I think a lot these pump/power heads have major issues and the cost is very high, so personally I wouldn't buy one used unless the discount was very deep, and I'm talking like 60%-70%. As for people ethically resell them, well I think for most people the item is working, and with the new pieces should work for a while. I also think that there is a notion that a lot of these pumps aren't like the old pumps, which basically ran forever, and pieces and parts ware out and need to be replaced.

As for LED, the really thing would be if the brightness of the lights changed over time which is something that you can see when you change metal halides or florescent bulbs.

 

[tunicata]

Hi Marrone,
Thank you for replying. I agree with your notation of planned obselencence i.e. that it appears that some items are simply not built to last. Unfortunately, given the seeming reduction of quality and longevity, the prices continue to soar at all levels.

It is very rare i.e. friends prices predominantly, to get a 60-70% price reduction even in resold items that are 3 years out of warranty.

For my impending upgrade, I waited 6 mos to buy the gyres brand new because I already know that I should expect motor and or controller isdues within 12 mos of use! I also purchased some MP 40s for flow on the bottom but at a solid friend price given that wetsides are a pain in the tush in regards to noise or bearings. I have 3 mp40s and each has an issue with the wetside!

In regards to your comment on apparent brightness, that is actually why I invested in a par meter. While visual or apparent brightness tends to be subjective, at least I have a quantitiative and somewhat reliable standard measure. It may make me feel a bit better to know that day 1 of newly purchased bulb gives xyz par reading and compare it to month 8 or year 3! That will also help me determine how my practice impacts the usefulness/lifespan.

I am not sure why so many folks say "I used this fixture/bulb at 60% for 8 mos" . Some times I think they are trying to make a claim that their fixture is worth more because it potentially has less use and therefore, is likely to live up to the 'longevity' hype for any bulb. This includes MH and LED, etc. The terms may change, but the point they are trying to make does not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G928A using Tapatalk

 

[marrone]

I think the thing with LED is most of the time the boards are going to go or a better unit will come out, so I'm not ure it's worthwhile to buy a used fixture, especially if it's your main lights. With MH you can just change the bulbs so your par isn't an issue but LED you really never, and unlike you, most people don't have par meters to check. I think in the end it's probably better to buy a new unit especially as people aren't going to give you a price break to begin with.

The powerheads are an interesting thing. A lot of the newer ones have all kinds of
Bells and whistles that you're never going to use, and I have talked to a lot of people who have gone back to things like Tuznes and such because they work. I've been lucky,two Vortex and no problems, outside of noise, and the same with my Gyre, little problem with one side not working. In the end I think both if these items will always have issues, so if you can get a used one at a really good price then go for it, otherwise I would wait until a sale ad gey a new one which will be under warranty, or just use the older, more reliable, ones.

 

[theMeat]

Think you just have to learn your way around. Some stuff is good overpriced stuff and some is not. Like an mp40 is nice but right in the manual it says to change the wet side every 17 mos or whatever it says. Really? While some ehiem pumps with minimal maintenance go running for decades. Good overpriced stuff and not.

Then you have Crazy overpriced stuff like some uv filters, were you can buy a model just as effective and reliable for a fraction. To me mp40 the reliability issues, and you can't turn/angle the wet side, would rather get a jebao wp just as powerful, and quite, for a 1/3 the price. Give it a vinegar bath every 6mos or so, and have them for years of use. Don't get buying a gyro, with known problems and fixes when you can buy the crossflow knock off for half the price.

Then you have some really good deals. Like sheet nori from ebay, and running kalkwasser, or a big fuge.

Leds idk. Have some leds running for 5 years, still going strong, with plenty of pop and growth.

Claims are all over the place. Just about all manufactures over state their performance specs, especially protein skimmers. You can pretty much half any manufactures recommended tank size in half. Flow rate and head for pumps, etc

 

[marrone]

I think just with a lot of stuff, like TVs that use to have multiple picture in picture, you buy things that do a lot of different stuff but in the end you're probably never going to use most of the things that it does. This is the case with my Gyro, I'm never going to use most of the stuff that it does. I have an Eheim pump that I was using for 83 up until recently and never had a problem with it, and it ran dry for long periods of time too. I think in the end you need to separate the fluff and if what they're offering is really something that you need, or will even use, and then make the decision.

 

[cmantis]

With all this gyro talk im hungry...