A Rio 1100 I have had for less than a year kicked the bucket on the evening of 6/7 and took most of my fish with it. It killed my 4 inch desjardinii, flame angel, scribbled angel, and 4 green chromis. Luckily I got my other fish out in time. As I understand it Rio powerheads release some kind of oil into the water when they go bad. And to make the whole thing worse, I got my order of 4 Maxijet 1200s the next day. I have also added a grounding probe. So for all of you using Rio powerheads, Be Warned and learn from my experience.
Rio Powerhead Warning
- Thread starter Tremelle
- Start date
JennM--that's a good question, but don't take any solace. The problem with the Rios wouldn't be caused by them becoming dirty. Most quality powerheads, like MaxiJets, are sealed in epoxy--meaning there is almost no way water is going to get into the electrical part of the pump. I'm not exactly sure how Rios are sealed, but my understanding is that they are not completely epoxy sealed, and poor sealing is the cause for most of the problems with them. Once water gets in, BAM! They're finished.
FWIW, when I got my Turboflotor 1000 (which came with a Rio 2100), I spent an extra $120 for an Eheim 1060 to run it and a half a day plumbing in the new pump, because I didn't want to have any Rio pumps in my system. I now use the Rio 2100 for water changes. But everytime I stick my hand into the water basin where the pump is running, I make sure I'm wearing rubber shoes and that the floor is dry!
FWIW, when I got my Turboflotor 1000 (which came with a Rio 2100), I spent an extra $120 for an Eheim 1060 to run it and a half a day plumbing in the new pump, because I didn't want to have any Rio pumps in my system. I now use the Rio 2100 for water changes. But everytime I stick my hand into the water basin where the pump is running, I make sure I'm wearing rubber shoes and that the floor is dry!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jdeets:
<STRONG>The problem with the Rios wouldn't be caused by them becoming dirty. Most quality powerheads, like MaxiJets, are sealed in epoxy--meaning there is almost no way water is going to get into the electrical part of the pump. I'm not exactly sure how Rios are sealed, but my understanding is that they are not completely epoxy sealed, and poor sealing is the cause for most of the problems with them.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, it is related to them getting dirty. Rio powerheads and pumps are epoxy sealed just like all other submersible pumps on the market. The main problem is that certain models, especially the 2100 and 2500, have a very thin epoxy coat over the top surface of the coil. In normal operation the pump is fine, but if the pump is stopped for some reason - most likely by getting dirty, then the coil begins to overheat. This will happen with any pump, but with the Rio, the coil's expansion is often enough to rupture the thin epoxy layer and cause major problems.
It is actually quite rare to see this problem on the 1100 - I would expect this was probably a manufacturing rather than a design defect. The 2100 and 2500 are the most susceptable, and it almost never affects the smaller Rios like the 600 and 800.
Note - this is based on a couple of post-mortem analysis we have done on customer's pumps and telephone conversations with the testing engineer at Taam (the importer of the Rio pumps).
<STRONG>The problem with the Rios wouldn't be caused by them becoming dirty. Most quality powerheads, like MaxiJets, are sealed in epoxy--meaning there is almost no way water is going to get into the electrical part of the pump. I'm not exactly sure how Rios are sealed, but my understanding is that they are not completely epoxy sealed, and poor sealing is the cause for most of the problems with them.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, it is related to them getting dirty. Rio powerheads and pumps are epoxy sealed just like all other submersible pumps on the market. The main problem is that certain models, especially the 2100 and 2500, have a very thin epoxy coat over the top surface of the coil. In normal operation the pump is fine, but if the pump is stopped for some reason - most likely by getting dirty, then the coil begins to overheat. This will happen with any pump, but with the Rio, the coil's expansion is often enough to rupture the thin epoxy layer and cause major problems.
It is actually quite rare to see this problem on the 1100 - I would expect this was probably a manufacturing rather than a design defect. The 2100 and 2500 are the most susceptable, and it almost never affects the smaller Rios like the 600 and 800.
Note - this is based on a couple of post-mortem analysis we have done on customer's pumps and telephone conversations with the testing engineer at Taam (the importer of the Rio pumps).
MattM - I want to commend you for taking the time to help. You, as a store owner, get to see a much greater quantity of problems than any single reef owner. Your prospective is very helpful because you have the ability to see trends where we seldom do.
I just wanted to let you know that your time here is greatly appreciated!
I just wanted to let you know that your time here is greatly appreciated!
I had a Rio 600 stop on me about 7 months ago. This was before I had heard any of the horror stories about them. I stuck my arm in my African Cichlid tank and noticed that there was no flow coming out of it. It had been at least a week since I had touched the powerhead. I have no idea how long it was stoped for. It was pretty hot, but I took it apart and cleaned it and it started back up just fine and is still working fine today. After reading all the horror stories here about the larger Rio's burning out I always wondered why nothing happen when the smaller one stopped. There were no adverse affects on my tank at all. Maybe I just caught it right after it stopped
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sub trate:
<STRONG>...Most over three years old....Never have had a problem.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the important thing to note is that the nature of this design defect makes a catastrophic failure more likely, but does not increase the chance of a more mundane failure. By catastrophic failure, I mean a leak that allows saltwater to contact electrical components.
We tried to look into this in detail in order to figure out if we should continue to sell Rio pumps. Here's some data based on return and sales figures from one of our suppliers:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> More Rios fail than any other powerhead/pump.
<LI> Including those that are supplied with skimmers and filters, far more Rios are sold than any other brand.
<LI> Based on percentage of units sold, Hagens and MagDrives fail more often than Rios.
<LI> On a percentage basis, Rios are the second most reliable pump/powerhead available - second only to Maxi-Jets
</UL>
So the issue isn't that they are unreliable or fail more often - they don't. The problem is that if they do fail, the chance of a catasrophic failure is much higher, especially with certain models (2100/2500).
A secondary issue is the impeller on the 1400. There is a problem with the impeller tolerances that make it too loose on the shaft. This causes a vibration that erodes the shaft and makes the problem progressively worse. The interesting thing is that the replacement impellers don't appear to have this problem. We have had to replace the impellers on the 1400's with just about every Remora Pro that we've sold. No one has yet had the same problem with the replacement impeller.
<STRONG>...Most over three years old....Never have had a problem.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the important thing to note is that the nature of this design defect makes a catastrophic failure more likely, but does not increase the chance of a more mundane failure. By catastrophic failure, I mean a leak that allows saltwater to contact electrical components.
We tried to look into this in detail in order to figure out if we should continue to sell Rio pumps. Here's some data based on return and sales figures from one of our suppliers:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> More Rios fail than any other powerhead/pump.
<LI> Including those that are supplied with skimmers and filters, far more Rios are sold than any other brand.
<LI> Based on percentage of units sold, Hagens and MagDrives fail more often than Rios.
<LI> On a percentage basis, Rios are the second most reliable pump/powerhead available - second only to Maxi-Jets
</UL>
So the issue isn't that they are unreliable or fail more often - they don't. The problem is that if they do fail, the chance of a catasrophic failure is much higher, especially with certain models (2100/2500).
A secondary issue is the impeller on the 1400. There is a problem with the impeller tolerances that make it too loose on the shaft. This causes a vibration that erodes the shaft and makes the problem progressively worse. The interesting thing is that the replacement impellers don't appear to have this problem. We have had to replace the impellers on the 1400's with just about every Remora Pro that we've sold. No one has yet had the same problem with the replacement impeller.
Interesting discussion!!
I stopped buying Rio powerheads afer reading a few tales of woe, but I still have a couple of Rio 600s, one each in my 55 and 37. The skimmer I bought for the 37 came equipped with a smaller Rio too, and we keep them all clean.
I think in this case, common sense with ALL powerheads and pumps should avert problems.
I generally replace my powerheads every couple of years or so anyway...
Jenn
I stopped buying Rio powerheads afer reading a few tales of woe, but I still have a couple of Rio 600s, one each in my 55 and 37. The skimmer I bought for the 37 came equipped with a smaller Rio too, and we keep them all clean.
I think in this case, common sense with ALL powerheads and pumps should avert problems.
I generally replace my powerheads every couple of years or so anyway...
Jenn
We have several rios going in the house....Most over three years old....Never have had a problem.......So when i hear of all these problems i just really wonder ....is it the manufactuer?.....Or is it three bad experiances and 20 other people jumping on the band wagon so they can tell a ridiculous story on the net about how their power head failed and killed their whole tank.....etc......Whatever yall....Try to really think here. I am backing rio......Ill say this only by rio's that were manufactured before three years ago LMAO
I had a Rio leak oil on my kitchen counter when I was cleaning it. Apparantly, it had jammed for some reason and was very warm to the touch when I took it out of the tank. Upon cleaning, I noticed a burning smell and a small amount of oil residue that had leaked. After seeing this and all the other horror stories here, I promptly changed all my Rio's to Maxijets and Magnum's.
Why would anyone want to take chances especially when so many of thousands of dollars have been invested in our tanks. Look at all the postings especially from long time members.
All I can say is I feel much more secure and I can sleep at night knowing that my tank will not crash as least not from a Rio.
Hey, I just thought of a movie. Any guesses???? Let's see who the smart one is.
Why would anyone want to take chances especially when so many of thousands of dollars have been invested in our tanks. Look at all the postings especially from long time members.
All I can say is I feel much more secure and I can sleep at night knowing that my tank will not crash as least not from a Rio.
Hey, I just thought of a movie. Any guesses???? Let's see who the smart one is.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jdeets:
<STRONG>FWIW, when I got my Turboflotor 1000 (which came with a Rio 2100), I spent an extra $120 for an Eheim 1060 to run it and a half a day plumbing in the new pump
</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I currently have a Turboflotor powered by a Rio 2100 and would like to replace it with the Eheim. However, I was under the impression that you could not use the needle wheel on the Eheim. How is yours working out? Also, what parts did you need to replumb and are they available at local hardware stores? Thanks,
Claude
<STRONG>FWIW, when I got my Turboflotor 1000 (which came with a Rio 2100), I spent an extra $120 for an Eheim 1060 to run it and a half a day plumbing in the new pump
I currently have a Turboflotor powered by a Rio 2100 and would like to replace it with the Eheim. However, I was under the impression that you could not use the needle wheel on the Eheim. How is yours working out? Also, what parts did you need to replumb and are they available at local hardware stores? Thanks,
Claude
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
ummm...
i think it it safe to say that most any equipment that has moving parts has the potential to fail at some point in time, regardless of "common sense".
however, concerning the rio's, it is not the failing of it that has gotten most of us into an uproar, but the way in which they fail.
for some, including myself, they not only stop working, but melt and release toxins/oil into the tank.
FYI, my rio meltdown was a 2100, that was UL listed and was properly maintained.
i think Matt's info is important, in that it shows most problems occur with the 2100/2500 models, which may indicate some sort of structural/design flaw.
from what ive read, seems to support this, as it is mostly those 2 models that are potential bombs for the reef aquaia, or any aquaria for that matter.
i think it it safe to say that most any equipment that has moving parts has the potential to fail at some point in time, regardless of "common sense".
however, concerning the rio's, it is not the failing of it that has gotten most of us into an uproar, but the way in which they fail.
for some, including myself, they not only stop working, but melt and release toxins/oil into the tank.
FYI, my rio meltdown was a 2100, that was UL listed and was properly maintained.
i think Matt's info is important, in that it shows most problems occur with the 2100/2500 models, which may indicate some sort of structural/design flaw.
from what ive read, seems to support this, as it is mostly those 2 models that are potential bombs for the reef aquaia, or any aquaria for that matter.
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