could the temperature be causing this?

[nick danger]

Thanks for the article, Mike. I dont think thats it. The brown stuff is definitely some kind of algae. As well there are lots of air bubbles attatched to the brown algae, which seems clearly to be respiration which means dinoflagellates or some algae or something.

I cant see this being the CAUSE, though, because there isnt a lot of it. Its maybe a symptom of the larger problem, whatever that may be.

Ill do another water change tomorrow or the next day and see if I can get the alk up. What else can I do?

 

[nick danger]

John F:

The bioload isnt a problem I think. There are only two fish, a small gramma and a tiny tiny six-line wrasse. The PH on the CPR is new and pulling out lots of stuff. I feed, as I said, every other week. How could I possibly improve upon this as far as limiting nutrient import?

 

[jmeader]

I just found this and think you might want to read it. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/protista/dinoflagellata.html

 

[john f]

The problem is Nick is not simply experiencing a Dinoflagelate bloom. The dinos are in fact a sign of a larger problem, and this is why corals are doing poorly.
Nick,
Keep up the water changes and skimming and you will probably be OK.
What type of sand did you use in the plenum?
How is the fauna there?
Again, your tank has been set up for three years. This is enough time for things like DOCs to catch up with it. If the skimmer was not working well (you said you had to just replace the powerhead) for some time, a little extra build up per week will turn into a problem after awhile.

The issue is not how often you feed or how few fish you have (they are not the only contributors to bioload) but the fact you have a declining tank. These things may seem like mysterious forces are at work but they are usually simple to fix.
I would bet a dollar if I stuck a turbofloter t1000 or remora pro on your tank and did some water changes, the conditions would improve.
You might need a bigger skimmer for no other reason than to be able to feed your tank more.
Corals like to eat to you know.
Once or twice a week is not ideal.
You should be able to feed twice a day and still have enough export to keep the tank running very well. If not, why not?


John

 

[nick danger]

Good points, everybody. I really appreciate all the help everyone has given me so far! You guys are great!

jmeader: I agree. What sort of skimmer would be good for a tiny (29g) sumpless tank, though? Small ones are all pretty much the same, and a big one (I have a Turboflotor HOB on my 75g) takes up too much room.

To answer your question, its a plenum with a couple inches of aragonite seeded originally with maybe 1cm of live sand.

I rearranged the LR about two months ago. Could this have anything to do with it? Could it have spurred something that is only now coming to fruition?

john f: The last article was helpful. This may be part of the problem. I DO in fact have a brown scum on the surface. I looks for all intents and purposes to be dinoflagellates.

On the one hand I fell like doing lots of water changes should help reduce DOCs, thus controlling to bloom, but on the other hand the article says import of fresh salt (I would assume this means water changes) fuels the bloom. What to do?

Should I turn off the lights for a day and cover the tank with a towel?

 

[jmeader]

Of all the small PSs available right now, I like the Prizm best. But a PS will not remove all DOCs regardless of how good it is. That's because it removes proteins but not all DOCs are proteins. So every once in awhile I filter with carbon for a day or two to clean up what the PS doesn't get. I also use sponges to clean up particulate matter and clean them frequently. Also moving the LR can release organics that were trapped underneath into the water column. But I think the temp rise was the final straw that kicked it off.

 

[nick danger]

OK, heres what the plan is.

Step 1: tank currently covered with a blanket, lights are off. This will be for 24 hours.

Step 2: breakin' out the old Whisper carbon power filter from back in the fresh water days.

Step 3: water change again Thursday

Ill let you know what happens.

My one last question: how did all of this do in both of the shrimp? The temperature alone didnt do it because there is still a happy living shrimp in my other tank. Did they eat some dinoflagellates and poison themselves? Why, then, do both of the fish seem to be 100% normal?

 

[jmeader]

I suspect that the shrimp did eat some of them and were poisoned. From what I gathered doing this research, diff dinos create diff levels of toxins. Those levels of toxins will rise if left unchecked. I think your corals are reacting to them. I think it's possible that if you hadn't caught this now, the situation would have gotten to the point that the fish would have eventually been affected too.

 

[jmeader]

This one got me once years ago. http://bellnet.tamu.edu/dinoflag.htm

 

[jmeader]

Finally. I found a link that really describes it and addresses how to control it. http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_crail.html

 

[john f]

Carbon is a great idea.
I sometimes forget we can use it to lower DOC.


John

 

[nick danger]

Just in case anyone is interested in an update, two water changes and several days of carbon later the tank is not 100% better, but the cynarina looks good and the star polyps are fully open. I think Im heading in the right direction.

Thanks for everybodys help!!

ND

 

[Anonymous]

Dinos are one of the leading causes of food poisoning from shellfish for humans. That probably means that they are toxic to most fish and inverts.


Chris

 

[nick danger]

Just thought I would poit out that it is now October, my opening post being July 1, and there is still a dinoflagellate problem in my 29g.

In the last few months I have run carbon 24/7, have fed the tank maybe 2 times, cut down the lighting, and have tried to do 2 water changes a week siphoning off as much of the red slime as I can. I have raised the alkilinity as well.

Within 3 or 4 days the LR is always completely covered with red slime and bubbles again.

This shows no signs of abating.

Suggestions anyone? Give up? Start over?

 

[Carpentersreef]

That's quite the battle you're fighting! I don't envy you. I've never been a fan of plenums, and my instincts tell me that the anearobic conditions are overpowering the relatively shallow sandbed over top of it. I recommend putting your livestock into another container of SW, after acclimating them properly, and vacuuming the heck out of your sandbed and getting rid of the plenum, and just go with a straight DSB. (4 inches deep, oolitic on the bottom, a little coarser on top, half and half). Essentially, start over, but with an established sand bed. I don't remember if you mentioned how much LR you had, but I would split it between the 2 systems. Keep water changes going about 10%/week on both systems, and I would think that you could add the livestock back in your main tank in about 2 weeks.
I dunno, it sounds like you've tried everything else.

HTH,
Mitch

[ October 04, 2001: Message edited by: Carpentersreef ]

 

[Ben1]

I agree with Mitch that the sand bed on your plenum is way to thin, either add more sand or get rid of the plenum. I think it is a possibility your DOC are being released from under the plenum. I would feed more not less. I prefer to feed twice a day on all of my systems, the sand bed stays much more full of life. I also believe this increases the right types of bacteria in the system as they arnt starving for nutrients. I would also suggest replacing the skimmer with a Remora skimmer. I use the Remora pro and a TF HOB and am pleased with both.

Really I think plenums only work properly when set up perfectly. I believe when you rearranged the rock you created a space for the plenum to start releasing 3 years trapped DOC's into the water.
Good luck.

 

[nick danger]

Thanks for the input.

Crap. The last thing I want to do is tear down the tank. But I guess its inevitable. Sigh...

 

[fishpoo]

i delt with this beast called dinoflagellates since March in my 55 gallon tank. Also known as brown snot or brown jelly algae. In the ocean it caused red tides. It hasn't harmed my corals but it covered rock and sand no matter what i did. Only controlling the lights helped. Suck as much out as you can and large water changes. Careful feedings and lower the temp if possible and good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to say thanks to all involved for this thread. It's really helped me out in understanding a few things that were going on with my own tank, and which direction to take recovery steps. This message board remains the best reef-keeping resource in the world.

Peace,

Chip

 

[Sebastian]

Has anyone tried using a UV on an infected tank?