Reef Newbie Questions

[Darren Wilson]

Hi.

I was recommended this forum by a few people that I have corresponded with across other forums, and decided to give it a shot.

I am currently looking at converting my 400 litre (60"x20"x24") Discus tank into a Fish only or Reef marine tank, and looking for advice (should anyone be so kind).

What I have so far
<ul type="square">[*]400 litre 60"x20"x24" tank[*]Internal Juw*l filtration with 402 (1000 litre per hour) powerhead[*]300W Heaterstat[*]Eheim 2026 Pro II with 2kg EhfiSubstrat & 1kg EhfiMech[*]Dual 48"x1" flourescant lighting with reflectors[*]MaxiJet pump/powerhead (similar to small pond pump)[*]2 x Interpet IP2 or 3 (can never remember) powerheads
[/list]

I am looking to add to this;-
<ul type="square">[*]Sufficient Kent marine or Tropic Marin saline solution[*]50kg Live Rock (or Dead Rock depending on lighting needed)[*]2 x 400W Metal Halides or if I can get away with it, 2 x Marine Flourescants (1 x Marine White & 1 x Actinic, both 20,000 Kelvin)[*]50kg Coral sand (either live or dead, depending on cost)[*]Protein Skimmer (don't know wether to got for air powered or self powered, again depending on costs)
[/list]

How does that sound to start off a new reef/fish only?

Can anyone give any advice on choices etc?

Also what species of fish would be suitable for a new setup? I was thinking of a shoal of 10 Green Chromis to start with(as they are cheap at my LFS @ £3 ($4.50 USD) each.

My tap water parameters are;-

pH 8
dH >20
Nitrate 40ppm
Phosphate trace (doesn't meet the first test marker on the kit)

I give my thanks in advance to those who advise. I have kept freshwater tropicals for close on 20 years now, and this is the first time I have become inclined to think about marines.

 

[Colin]

you are on the right track, Personally, I think that all of the many varieties of tanks that we maintain can be catagorized in three ways:

1 Most of us start with the Fish Only display, which is your traditional style of tank. This can be an important distinction, because Fish Only displays are different than other tanks. Maintenance, lighting and filtration can be simple. Medications in the tank are possible. UV filters may be used if needed. Bio-balls and Bio-Wheels are possible. Carbon is necessary. Fluidized bed filters might make sense. Adding Live rock to the Fish Only display changes the complexion of the display. Now you are no longer maintaining just a Fish Only tank, now you also have to add intense lighting and eliminate other forms of biological filtration. Fish Only displays may include a specialized tank for a single species (Lionfish or seahorses) or they can include a community of fish (Damsels or Clowns). Large water changes are the modus operandi for traditional tank keepers.

2 The second kind of tank is the Fish and Invertebrate style. This is your next step in the evolution of marine displays. The is the tank where you decide to make a little more natural attempt at cleaning the tank. Using lessons from your freshwater days (did everybody start with a freshwater display?) you add scavengers to help scour the tank. If you keep any crabs, snails, urchins, scallops or shrimps then you have a Fish and Invertebrate display. By contrast, the touch tank at your local Science Museum is an Invertebrate Only Display. It has no fish at all. Anemones are not included here, because they require intense lighting. Fish and Invertebrate displays are not so different than other tanks. Maintenance should be easier with added scavengers. Lighting should be better to encourage some algae growth; plants would be a good option. Filtration can still be simple and traditional. Under-gravel, outboard and cannister filters are viable choices. Medications in the tank, however, are not possible. While trace amounts of copper work great in a Fish Only tank, that tank can never be used for invertebrates UV filters are debatable. Bio-balls and Bio-Wheels still make sense. Carbon is helpful. Fluidized bed filters are an option too. Food should include a sinking pellet food for the larger crabs and shrimps once in awhile.

3 The final type of tank is the Live Coral display. This is your reef aquarium, stocked with lots of live rock. The Live Coral display is the ultimate expression of miniature ocean keeping. While the most natural looking and realisticaly complete on the one hand, reef displays are conversely the most energy and technology intemsive on the other hand. It includes everything; live rock, invetrabrates, clams, hard and sof t corals, plus fish. It includes anemones, because of their requirement for high light. In fact, the high light requirement is one of the distinctive traits of the Live Coral or Reef display. Intense lighting can mean high heat, temperature increases and temperature fluctuation, which may require a chiller to cool the tank.

While comprehensively complete in an ecological sense, the reef display is also the most energy and technology intensive type of tank.

Live Coral or Reef tanks can be tricky, finicky and expensive tanks to set-up and maintain. They are the biggest challenge in the marine aquarium hobby today. Lighting has to be the best to encourage hard, soft corals, clams and anemones to grow. Scavengers are required to keep algae growth under control. Tangs, in fact, are nearly essential to crop back the algae growth . A few small crabs, lots of snails, urchins, scallops, gobies and shrimps are needed to help groom the miniature reef. Filtration is not simple. It must be the best. Circulation must be strong. Surface overflow is needed. Under-gravel filters can not be used. Large Protein Skimmers are a must. Medications are not possible. UV filters are not recommended. Carbon is debatable. Fluidized bed filters do not make sense if the tank is chock full of quality live rock. Neither will Bio-balls or Bio-Wheels. Chillers might have to be added to keep the brightly lit tank on the cool side. Food should be the best, though fed sparingly. Trace elements may have to be added; Calcium supplements are needed to grow the bones of the corals. A reef display can cost ten times the investment of a fish only tank.

 

[Scottis24]

Get some good books on the hobby and read before you pitch your discus. I started out with ciclids before I got into marine. Fish only with live rock tanks are easier than full reef tanks in my opinion, but I also liike things that I can see moving, coral is cool but I'll do that later. Your LFS will tell you that you need a ton of things you don't or will quickly grow out of. Don't skimp on your skimmer, and I Would figure out a way to plumb your tank for a sump. Your primary filtration is going to come from the skimmer and the live rock. Live rock has organisims on it that run the nitrogen cycle. I would also look at a reverse osmosis/ deionization unit. Since going away from tap water to RO/DI, I have not had near as much of a problem with green filamentous alge. The hardest thing is figuring out what gear works for you and what's not needed. What works in freshwater doesn't always do good here.

My Oscar tank is a 55g, with a single florescent bulb and a HOT magnum 250 filter, running carbon continously (except for when I clean the tank and water polish with a micron filter). Works great for him, and he's happy and healthy.

My FOWLR in my office is a 58GRR oceanic with a 20g Amiricle sump with skimmer and 60 pounds of LR. I don't run carbon except for during the monthly maintence cycle.

Start to see the difference in the setups? Any way read read read! And have fun, after all thats what we are into this for right?

 

[Darren Wilson]

Anyone else got any suggestions?

Thanks for the posts so far guys. They are appreciated and noted.

 

[esmithiii]

OK, first buy this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890087009/qid=1017520737/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6737635-7148845

Don't buy anything else until you read the book. Seriously.

Next, your tap water will make your tank an algae farm. You will need a water purifier.

Also, the internal filter I am assuming that it is a canister-type or trickle filter. This is a bad idea for a reef tank.

As for sand, make sure you get sugar-size particles and that it is calcium based, not silica based. You will need much more than the 110 lbs (50kg) that you mentioned. You should shoot for 4-6" depth for the sand bed.

As for liverock, you should shoot for 1.5 to 2.0 lbs per gal. (0.18 to .24 kg per L) I would shoot for about 80kg of liverock.

You will probably want a sump on a tank that size.

With the 2 400W lamps, I would suggest that you go with all actinics on the flourescents and stick w/ the 6500K iwasaki bulbs on the metal halides.

I would suggest a good skimmer. Andy at MyReef creations makes great ones that are affordable, but I don't know if he exports.

Good luck, and feel free to post more questions.

Ernie

 

[Colin]

ditto on the book, well worth the investment ...

 

[freedom75]

litres oh no maybe I should have paid attention in school instead of sleeping

John Wray

 

[JohnD]

I think Ernie gave you a good recommendation, but I would also recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890087025/ref=pd_sim_books/103-4096040-5536649

HTH