No more MASNA and MACNA?

[pez]

I can I consider the $200 I prepaid for next year's MACNA a donation?

Seriously though, what about MACNA next year? If I contribute now to keep MASNA solvent, there is still no guarantee of MACNA next year. And a better question is, Brad, why do we "need" MASNA (I am being serious here), aside from MACNA?

No one has really mentioned it, but what does MASNA spend money on other than MACNA? It's not really clear to me.

Finally, how does one knowingly over budget for MACNA anyway? Hope that you get enough people to attend to cover the cost? That seems very short sighted to me. Or was it not "knowingly" over budgeted?

-Tom

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: pez ]</p>

 

[Brad Ward]

Tom,

This is what MASNA is, according to their website:

MASNA is a not-for-profit organization composed of several marine aquarium clubs and individual hobbyists from Canada, Mexico, and the United States totaling over 1,200 individuals.
MASNA operates from a central Board of Directors elected each year by the delegates from the member societies at the Marine Aquarium Conference of North America, (MACNA). Our goal is to ensure a sustainable future for marine environments and the marine aquarium hobby.

MASNA provides our members assistance in:
Programming for local meetings and conferences
Planning for local meetings and conferences
Access to speakers
A quarterly newsletter
An annual conference (MACNA)
Support of the annual conference
A collective voice in national and international initiatives
Efforts to protect the hobby from abuse and restrictive legislation
Member on the board of MAC (Marine Aquarium Council)
MASNA is the parent organization that coordinates the annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America, MACNA in conjunction with a member club. The conference is open and has evolved into the premier event of the year for all marine hobbyists.
MACNA offers beginning and advanced hobbyists the opportunity to speak directly with the experts and to gain first hand knowledge of procedures and techniques. It also serves as a social reunion for hobbyists and business acquaintances.

Our Goals...

MASNA’s purpose is to:
Encourage the ethical growth of the marine aquarium industry
Support efforts to eliminate abuses in collecting and transporting marine organisms
Educate members with quarterly newsletters, MACNA, and other sanctioned conferences
Promote the growth of societies within the hobby to insure a sustainable future for the marine environment

Tom, I believe that MASNA is a needed organization for the hobby. In numbers there is strength. As I was not at the Board meetings I can only go by what I hear. I understand that the Coordinator for the event resigned 3 weeks prior to the last show, and the contract with the Hotel had many hidden expenses that were unanticipated. Also, there were very few on site registrations this year. There are usually a good number that show up on site. It is a pity that things have gone the way they have, but it is up to us to save it or see it go. Your $200 is still refundable in the event that this effort does not succeed. I look forward to seeing you in Dallas next August however.

Regards,

Brad Ward

 

[Brad Ward]

James,

Honestly don't know. I suspect pride and the belief that the Corporate side of the hobby would be enough to bail them out was the reason for the delay. Is it too late? I hope not. I will continue to try and get the word out. If you can think of anything, let me know. Time is short.

Brad

 

[Gatortailale1]

After reading all the posts here and all on another board, I'm left wondering what should be done.

My initial thoughts take me back to James W's "Not my fault mentality" post. It's easy for me and others to say it's not my fault, why should I donate money and bail out MASNA. I'm not sure how to respond. Part of me concurs with other posts above, that I would like to see "honest" reasons and plans as to why MASNA should be kept alive.

I also feel responsible too. Even though it's not my fault, as a member of MASNA and a hobbyist, I should / do assume some responsibility in paying off old debts. I think it will leave a bigger scar on the hobby if we don't pay off this old debt and let MASNA go under. I should probably elaborate more on this thought, but I'm unsure what else to say at this time. I hope someone gets my drift and can help me elaborate a bit more on this type of thinking.

A suggestion I have -if MASNA is bailed out- would be for the board to develop 3-5 alternatives for where MACNA's are held (hotel vs. college ect) and then create a web page where people can vote. If a password could be added to the voting, or a pin # then we could limit it down to MASNA members and also give voting rights to PEOPLE WHO DONATE and bail out MASNA. Right now 95% of us who are potential donors don't have a voice about the direction we want MASNA and MACNA to be taken. With some type of voting system, members and the donors can at least express opinions. After all, people who will be donating are the people who most likely will be attending the next or future MACNA.

ALSO: I realize that it's hard to see how more than 1 MACNA can be supported a year. My thinking in my above post was that IMO 75% of the show is geared toward vendors showing off products to hobbyists, hobbyists trading or swapping frags, and meeting other hobbyists. I understand the talks are a big part of the event as well, but THEY COST TO MUCH money for the average hobbyist. I for one would rather spend that much money on something I can stick in my tank. -GET THE MESSAGE- others have are saying this too. If you want people to attend, keeps admissions costs low and make up costs by getting more people to attend.

I've gone on too long, but this is a serious issue.

Craig

[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Gatortailale ]</p>

 

[degall 55]

Brad;

For the benefit of the others who don't know me, let me say that I am the Coordinator who resigned 3 weeks before the conference, since I could see the direction the conference was headed. We HAD a good budget but it was NOT being followed. There were no "hidden charges" in the hotel contract; we knew about them all.

The problem was that the prez insisted on counting on a big last minute rush in registrations, even though registrations to date were WAY behind the previous year's. In light of this I prefered to cut expenses (just in case), while the prez wanted to make M13 the "biggest ever" and proceeded to plan for a lavish banquet, loads of hors' douvres for the reception and extensively stocking the MASNA Hospitality Suite with food and drink.

It's really a shame that this happened and that your club must suffer because of it. I hope you can recover and that your conference in August can still go on. However, in case some of you are worried about future MACNAs, let me say that the International Marine Aquarium Conference (IMAC) will be held in Chicago in May of 2003. We have avoided the high expense problem of MACNA and early bird registration is only $75 and the hotel has rooms for only $99/nite, so it can be done!

We have a great speaker line up!

Dennis Gallagher

 

[pez]

I sounds like to me the whole thing was mismanaged. As Tom Brokaw would say "The Fleecing of America"? It is *very* hard for me to have simpathy for MASNA now.

-Tom

 

[Gatortailale1]

Not trying to be a jerk, but how are we supposed to take this sudden silence on this topic? Yesterday we had lots of reports and lots of people tossing in their two cents. Today. I have heard little on this topic and nobody really wants to step up and lay a plan of action out for us.

I hope that this silence means you are in some kind of discussion deciding how you want to move forward and how you want help.

Don't cry out for help then leave us uninformed. I know someone out there must have some news related to this.

Please advise,

Craig

 

[Brad Ward]

Right now MASNA is trying to put a secure shopping link up on their website for CC donations. I think we should give them a little time to get things organized. I really did this on my own and they weren't ready for it. Hopefully they will post a new thread and a link to their site.

I will keep you appraised when I learn something.

Regards,

Brad ward

 

[TEW]

I did not mean to leave people hanging but please try to understand that between this Board and Reef Central there are just too many questions and
at this point, too little energy left on my part to respond to each individual question or scrutiny.
I came on board with MASNA this past summer at the MACNA conference held here in Baltimore. Up until that time, I had (and am) serving as president of our local club, CMAS.
When we voted within our club to bid for MACNA XIII, we were all very excited and set out to find a reasonable location, close to the Inner Harbor and affordable to the average hobbyist. We originally contracted with the OMNI Hotel but the MACNA XIII coordinator came and felt the facility was too small and inadequate for our purposes. Thus, that contract was scrapped and a new contract drawn up with the larger and newer Marriott Waterfront. I guess this action was taken in light of the attendance and projections from previous MACNA's. Obviously, we did not get the numbers we anticipated. To suggest that spending on the hospitality suite was excessive or that any other one thing caused MASNA to find itself in this predicament is ludicrous. I did the shopping for the hospitality suite. We spent a grand total of $298 to entertain the speakers, club boards, VIP's and their guests.
I can certainly assure you all that everyone who ended up at MACNA XIII in ANY capacity was interested in only one thing: To put on an enjoyable and informative program for the hobbyists who attended. Throughout the year leading up to the conference, we were faced with the resignation of the president we originally began with, another person who wanted a company he would form to run & execute MACNA apart from the hobbyists (as a personal business venture), and uncertainty regarding even the location and dates until quite late in the game. All of us trying to pull this conference together were working full time jobs (some of us several full time jobs)and attending on line meetings with other people from around the country trying to coordinate and pull this all together. I can honestly say that most of the people involved, were so involved for love of this incredible hobby of ours. There was nothing to be gained personally.
When the bills from the hotel, AV people, transportation for speakers, etc. began pouring in, we (the five of us left on this new Board) began to realize the extent of this debt we were being faced with. We had approximately half of what we owed the Marriott. We had no choice but to try and raise the money through corporate sponsors. Times being what they are, it has been difficult to realize any big donors. God love those who have consented to help us out.
And so, in a last ditch effort, we decide to go public with our plight and leave it up to the hobbyists as to whether MASNA / MACNA should survive. Hence our soliciting donations for the remaining $20,000.
This post is not meant to be a "plug" for the MASNA Board, the work we did or even as an apology for what has transpired. It is simply meant to clarify, as best I can at 11PM after a full day at work, how we find ourselves in this situation. If we survive, will the tenor of MACNA change..yes;
If we survive, will MACNA XIV survive in a simpler venue ... yes. It is certainly my hope that as a vehicle for disseminating information about the wonderful Marine / Reef Hobby, both MASNA and MACNA will survive this and flourish in the future. If it is not the will of those who support this hobby than so be it.
With the Christmas Season quickly upon us, I will not post again. There just are not enough hours in the day, and I have no desire or energy to justify or defend what I have tried to convey. I do ask that you take what I have tried to explain as an effort to inform those of you who might consider contributing to this cause.
I am personally grateful to those who contributed and saw MACNA XIII through to its completion. From our President down to the newest club delegate at the August Board Meeting, we were blessed to have such dedicated and devoted hobbyists. It has been an honor for me personally to work with them.
Thanks for the chance to explain; Have a wonderful Holiday Season & only good things in the year that lies ahead!

Tom Walsh
CMAS President
MASNA VP

 

[Brad Ward]

Hi Justen,

I'll do my best to answer your questions with the limited exposure I have had with the planning for the Dallas conference
.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Justen:
<strong>My guess is alot more people would feel more comfortable knowing who budgeted out the conference, and why it got so costly before they even had a fraction of the people pre-registered.[/Q]</strong>

The planning and budget for MACNA is started more than 1 year out by the MASNA Board and MACNA Committee. The Budget is determined by the projected expenses of the venue and the number of people expected to attend. These projections are based on past performance of previous MACNA's. I'm sure you can see that it is not easy or simple and takes a lot of planning. Pre-registration does not occur until the previous MACNA. I have registered myself at the previous year's MACNA, but usually wait(like most people) until the last minute to register. This leaves the planners in a quandry. Do they plan according to history, or do they scale down the conference and turn away people who wait.

<strong>Was this the responsibility of the local club to go out and find the space, A/V and Misc. ?[/Q]</strong>

The local club can help in the decision, but the MACNA planning committee is the ultimate decision maker.

<strong>And if so, why didn't MASNA come in and say your way over budget. Certainly someone knew how much things would cost. I do understand that the coordinator resigned 3 weeks prior. Was that because he knew ? And if the fact was known then, I would have passed around a collection plate at the show. I think people will bail MACNA and MASNA out if we know the facts. Noone wants to give money if they think it will be mismanaged. Set peoples minds at ease with the facts. NOT:I will not post again. There just are not enough hours in the day, and I have no desire or energy to justify or defend what I have tried to convey. [/Q]</strong>

I wish there was a simple answer for this, but the fact is, there was a lower turnout than expected, and the Hotel that the conference was held, (from what I understand) charged 8k to let the vendors set up the day before the conference. I don't know if that was spelled out in the contract, and who was responsible for something like that. The Coordinator, The Planning Committee, or whoever. The fact remains, it was a screw up and accounts for a large portion of the monies owed. Low attendence can't really be blamed on anyone as I see it. Remember, this Conference was held in August. This was just before the 9/11 events, and now economists are saying that we were in a economic recession at the time.. Did this have something to do with the low turnout. I'm not a betting man, but I think so. How do you plan for something like that over a year in advance? I sure didn't. Did you?

<strong>I would gladly give money and time to help MACNA become a success. As far as extra costs, Im sure more then enough people would love to pick speakers up at the airport and drive them to the hotel. I'm in the A/V buisness and would love to loan some gear for the show. I think MASNA as a whole should look into other options for long term dealings with key suppliers of such services. I hope noone takes this post wrong, I in no means want anyone to point the finger at someone else. But I think 20K is no small number and someone somewhere has something to say.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's the spirit we all need to have. I think the fatal mistake has been to rely on paid help when the hobbyist would probably be willing to help out in different ways that they are best qualified for. To that end, I also think that MASNA needs to reach out in forums like this to get that help. BTW, they have been using the same A/V vendor for at least the last 3 years that I know of, and maybe longer than that. At the conference last year, a Gentleman who works for TI volunteered the use of a state of the art projector for the Dallas Conference. That would be a considerable savings for the conference. Things like this present themselves when you ask for them sometimes. Everyone involved and the present Board agree that expenses got out of hand.

It is hard to get people to volunteer sometimes. The pressures of everyday life keep a lot of hobbyists from joining organizations like Marine Aquarium Societies, and filling positions on the Boards. We would welcome you and everyone else to join MASNA and run for a position on the Board. I fact, I think joining MASNA would be better than making a donation. The more people and organizations get involved, the stronger MASNA will be. And we NEED a strong voice the way things look to be going Globally for our hobby. MASNA will and does give us that Strong Voice. I hope we can save MASNA, and work towards that goal.

I think your post reflects the same questions everyone has. I hope that you can see that this was a culmination of items and some unforseen events that combined to make this conference go in the red. Future conferences will not be as ambitous I am sure.

HTH,

Brad Ward

Regards, Brad Ward

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: Brad Ward ]

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: Brad Ward ]</p>

 

[SPC]

Steve

 

[Justen]

My guess is alot more people would feel more comfortable knowing who budgeted out the conference, and why it got so costly before they even had a fraction of the people pre-registered.

Was this the responsibility of the local club to go out and find the space, A/V and Misc. ?

And if so, why didn't MASNA come in and say your way over budget. Certainly someone knew how much things would cost. I do understand that the coordinator resigned 3 weeks prior. Was that because he knew ? And if the fact was known then, I would have passed around a collection plate at the show. I think people will bail MACNA and MASNA out if we know the facts. Noone wants to give money if they think it will be mismanaged. Set peoples minds at ease with the facts. NOT:I will not post again. There just are not enough hours in the day, and I have no desire or energy to justify or defend what I have tried to convey.

I would gladly give money and time to help MACNA become a success. As far as extra costs, Im sure more then enough people would love to pick speakers up at the airport and drive them to the hotel. I'm in the A/V buisness and would love to loan some gear for the show. I think MASNA as a whole should look into other options for long term dealings with key suppliers of such services. I hope noone takes this post wrong, I in no means want anyone to point the finger at someone else. But I think 20K is no small number and someone somewhere has something to say.

Justen

 

[Gatortailale1]

Tom & Brad,

Thank you for giving us some feedback. I know things are happening rather fast, and with questions coming up on 2 or more boards, it's hard to follow and explain everything. I'm pleased that you have done your best to keep us informed of the latest developments. (We all would like more information, but what has been posted today is a great start, and goes a long way to answering a lot of issues out there.) I know it's hard to find the time, especially during the holidays [I know I have a hard time finding time now that I have a 1 month old at home]

Any word on whether the CC link on MASNA is up yet?

I think you are right about the need for MASNA Board members to use the boards more to get the word out on what the latest developments are related to MASNA and MACNA planning. I think you and others are catching on to the need to ask peeps on this board for help and donations of any potential services they can offer to help a MACNA go off smoother and cheaper. [I once was told that you learn the most in life by making a mistake. It's very true statement. MASNA board members have learned a lot from this past event. I'm sure it wont happen again. For the good of this hobby, we all need to support a national organization, and MASNA is the one to support.

It's easy for me and others to sit back, read posts and complain. It takes balls to get up off the computer chain and get out there and try to organize an event, especially when you are volunteering your time. My hats off to you!

I hope in the coming year I can find a way to be more active in my local club, and with MASNA.

All the best for a successful MACNA XIV
Craig

 

[NancyS]

While I’ve purposely stayed out of this as I don’t believe in airing dirty laundry in public I feel a public disclosure of some of the facts is now necessary.

A loyal MASNA supporter has just sent me a copy of an email that Connie Hannon has been secretly sending to BB Admins and MASNA members suggesting that they discourage people from continuing to support MASNA. At this point, I can only say that if she is still involved with MASNA or MACNA in any way, she should be removed ASAP for insubordination and conflict of interest as the main objective here seems to be discrediting MASNA and me, and drumming up attendance for the show that she and Dennis Gallagher (and others demanding monetary compensation) are planning.

To give you some history, MASNA began hosting MACNA when some of the BOD from 3 years ago decided that the Committee members should be able to pocket the proceeds. We had 2 valid bids from member clubs (Indiana and Ohio) but the excuse given was that they were not good enough to host. As I felt this was totally unethical, I resigned as Webmaster and many of our member clubs dropped out. I returned as Webmaster a year later based on the promise that all proceeds from the Lauderdale show would go to the MASNA Treasury.

For the record, while I signed the contract with the MARRIOTT in my official capacity as Prez, all negotiations were handled by the person who was considered to be our “resident expert”, Dennis Gallagher. He has publicly stated that it’s possible to put on an affordable show so why couldn’t he do it for MASNA???

The Lauderdale Coordinators could not produce a detailed Financial Report for Lauderdale to assist us in planning the Baltimore show. Instead, we blindly trusted the budget prepared by the CPA who coordinated Lauderdale in conjunction with our “Hotel Expert”. In fact, we now see we had a perfectly good contract with the OMNI Hotel but were told that it was not large enough and overall totally unsuitable for our needs and that we needed to switch to a larger hotel. The Marriott was the only one available at that late date.

When I ran for the position of Prez 2 years ago, it was with the explicit understanding that I NOT be involved with any MACNA planning. I don’t have the experience necessary and I wanted to totally dedicate my efforts to our members, hobbyists, and bringing MASNA back on its feet again.

A couple of months after being elected our MACNA Coordinator resigned along with our Fundraiser and Editor. I considered this the price to be paid in my efforts to get us on a more “professional” track but this now meant we also had no Coordinator. Dennis Gallagher kindly accepted the appointment and I agreed to assist. This while also trying to be Prez, Webmaster, Editor and Membership person until Connie took over Membership.

While Connie has blatantly made many false statements against me both publicly and privately, she still hasn’t grasped the fact that there was nothing we could do to renegotiate the signed MARRIOTT contract once we realized in June we’d never meet the projected attendance goal. Attendance by those paying for 3-day tickets was close to what it was for Lauderdale so why did those involved with that show let us set a budget based on almost twice that amount???

I WAS able at the last minute to cut our expenses by about $20,000 which was still way short of our goal. It was never MY intent to put on the fanciest show possible but there was money we HAD to spend per our contract with the Hotel.

Guess I forgot to mention that when Dennis resigned 3 weeks prior to showtime we became aware that NONE of the arrangements had been made with the Hotel or A/V crew nor had our Award Trophy been ordered. Did I take control of everything at this time…YOU BETCHA! Somebody had to! I was determined to give the hobbyists and all other attendees the best show possible under the circumstances. Those who were at the Annual Delegates meeting might now understand why I was so unprofessional and unprepared.

Oh yeah…the flock of people who resigned in August did so because they refused to continue working so hard without monetary compensation. Read between the lines, people! My efforts to bring us back to our original Mission Statement of being an organization of unpaid volunteers dedicated to educating hobbyists has been somewhat of a totally futile effort considering those secretly campaigning to destroy us!

I need to apologize profuslely to our Baltimore speakers who never received the royal treatment they deserved due to lack of time and manpower. My apologies also to Frank Wilson of Reef Concepts who generously donated a very expensive skimmer to our raffle that was even engraved but never got properly displayed.

The only other apology I can offer at this point is to the wonderful CMAS folks who got left holding the ball because I am not a bionic mircale worker and was forced to resign due to the stress of it all having taken a toll on my health. However I see they are now also under attack for having principles and ethics! Tom, Carl & Eric, hang in there! You're doing a wonderful job under unbelievably stressful circumstances!

Nancy

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: NancyS ]</p>

 

[carolina98]

BS!