How do you lower Nitrate?

[DebbieC]

Does anyone know how to lower Nitrate other than water changes? I'm thinking I'm over-feeding plus...I have a hair algae problem I have been attacking for weeks. I've been scrubbing my live rock...and doing 30% water changes for the past two weekends. My Nitrate level is approximately 20 ppm.

 

[EmilyB]

Aggressive skimming would be my first suggestion. What type of skimmer are you using and what size tank ?

 

[DebbieC]

I have a:
-55 gallon tank
-Bak Pak protein skimmer
-Penguin filter to help
-4 inch sand bed

 

[jmeader]

Lowering your bio-load is the most effective way. Grow plants, increase your LR, add a sump with more LR and a DSB, add a denitrator, increase your skimming, or grow more hair algae. Till any method of export you decide to use matures and starts to do it's job, you will just have to deal with the algae.

 

[Anonymous]

When you go with a DSB you need a nutrient export system. Why people don't understand this I don't know.

 

[esmithiii]

How much Liverock do you have? Does the penguine use a foam filter? If so, you need to keep that sucker clean, like every couple of weeks at least. How old is your tank? Do you use RO/DI water for water changes? Expect a bloom to last anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months. It will go away eventually. How well does your skimmer work??

Ernie

 

[Jenemone]

I would try removing the bio-wheel in the penguin filter. I use an emperor filter, but stopped using the bio-wheel because it caused a build-up of nitrates eventually. Live rock and DSB are a more efficient method of filtration because they can breakdown the nitrates, whereas the bio-wheel will breakdown waste INTO nitrates, but cannot go any further.

Try doing a search for bio-balls or bio-wheel for a better explaination.

HTH,
Jen

 

[MedicineMan1]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwa46:
<STRONG>When you go with a DSB you need a nutrient export system. Why people don't understand this I don't know.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My understanding of the DSB is that nitrates are reduced to nitrogen gas and oxygen. WHY would I need a nutrient export system?

 

[MedicineMan1]

Some potential problems I see with your system are:<OL TYPE=1>
<LI>The bak-pak is probably too small of a skimmer for a 55 gallon. Have you tried using a Maxi-jet 1200 to replace the Rio? It REALLY does increase the skimmer production!
<LI>Lose the Penguin altogether. They are VERY effective at reducing ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates, but then leave the nitrates to accumulate. (See #3 for more on this.)
<LI>Have an approximate minimum of 1 pound live rock per gallon of your system. Live rock provides effective biological filtration (ammonia->nitrites->nitrates->nitrogen gas and oxygen). The last step works with live rock because it allows anoxic areas for the anaerobic bacteria that reduces nitrates to grow. Removing the Penguin will allow the live rock and DSB (a DSB works like the LR to remove nitrates) to do ALL of your biological filtration. The Penguin is actually MORE efficient at biological filtration (minus the nitrate reduction) and will uncouple the nitrate production from the areas that reduce it.
<LI>Use nitrate free make-up water. If you're not at least filtering your make-up water for nitrates (I use a poly filter and nitrate sponge filter in my tap water before adding), you may be adding nitrates in every time you add water (even changes!). IF you're using RO or DI water, this won't be necessary.
<LI>What IS your bioload? If you have more fish than your biological filter can handle (and at 20 ppm nitrate, I rather doubt it), you'd get an ammonia/nitrite/nitrate build-up.</OL>
It will take some time for the hair algae to "die off". As it does, try removing it. Otherwise, as it dies, it will release all those nutrients back into your water column, providing "fuel" for the existing stuff!

Hope all this helps!
(PS I'm dealing with hair algae also; pain in the tushy, isn't it?)

 

[Kenzy]

You could also try adding some caulerpa (feather,grape,razor) to out-compete the hair algea. When you hear people mention the export of nutrients, most of the time they are talking about pruning caulerpa and physically removing it from the tank. This is also when it's nice to have a refugium in a lit sump. It keeps the caulerpa out of the main tank and still absorbs nitrates to then be removed.

 

[Mouse]

Debbie,

I have seen tanks that have Nitrate readings of 40. I wouldn't blame them for your GHA outbreak entirely. You should also consider using a phosphate removing compund like Rowaphos. You must read the instructions very closely for these compunds, as their application is very specific, and otherwise they dont work at all. Of course the tanks with the high Nitrates weren't reefs, but they still had no GHA.

 

[Anonymous]

MedicineMan,

Go to Dr. Ron's board and do a search on energy flow. As a tank ages, all sorts of nutrients and trace elements build up. At some point they will reach a threashold level and have negative effects on your tank. That is why Dr. Ron says you need to export them. Most use macro algae in a sump or refugium. Algae filters work as well. Just sand and rock over time will have problems. He states this very clearly ever time some one asks about a DSB. If you ask about nitrate removal it will be his first question. So do a little more reading and then set up an export system.

P.S. He also says that nitrate readings of 80 are not harmful in a reef tank as I remember.

[ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: cwa46 ]

[ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: cwa46 ]

 

[Goldmoon]

If you do not have a refugium or sump but still want to have plants I would recommand Halimeda (money plant). They do not grow as fast as caulerpa, they are hard as a cactus. Some websites state that fish won't touch it because it is to calcerus (did I spell it right??). I do have some in my tank and I think they make a beautiful addition of green. (and helps with nitrates

)

By the way, I got hair algae too.. slowly going away though.. my readings are 0 everywhere.. amonia, nitrite, nitrates, phosphate.. but I could not check the organic phosphates so my guess is that this is the culprit.
I don't know how old is your tank but algae is part of the nice things about new tanks

Mine is less then 2 months old. (20g)
Best thing to do I guess is to find a good clean up crew to assist you with it. My 2 mythrax crabs are doing a real good job at it

[ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: Goldmoon ]

 

[Uel]

I use a denitrifier and I have not had a problem for years.

 

[MedicineMan1]

cwa;
I have a "nutrient removal system" of caulerpa (at least 3 different species) in my tank. I prune it fairly regularly. Still have the hair algae, though. I'm thinking a deeper sand bed would be of a great benefit (this one is 2 to 4").
There was a point where I got depressed and didn't prune for almost a month. Then I spent 6 f-ing hours pulling out caulerpa and masses of hair algae! If anyone DOES decide to use caulerpa for a nutrient export system, keep it in your sump (with lights, of course!)

 

[davelin315]

No offense meant to the revered Shimek, he knows more than I do, but if he thinks that nitrate levels of 80ppm are not harmful, then I have lost a lot of respect for what he says (although I trust other reefers opinions more than the so called experts). I don't know how he can say something like that no matter how much knowledge he has amassed. Nitrates that high will not only cause ridiculous amounts of algae in your tank that can overgrow corals, but would doubtless be harmful to corals and fish as well. That's like adding fertilizer to your tank.

 

[wnfaknd]

i would have to agree with davelin315, we can all breathe in the garage with the car on, but for how long.....

80ppm nitrates would simply be unacceptable to me even for a FO tank. livestock would be really unconfortable with those levels.

 

[Anonymous]

davelin315

He(Dr. Ron) has a lot of experience. On what do you bias your opinion. Why don't you ask him on the Dr. Ron Board? He can explain his position better than I can. I respect his advice, but don't have his knowledge.
Why would you believe him about DSB's and not trust his opinion on Nitrates???

Uel,
A denitrator is an export system, but only for nitrates.

[ September 26, 2001: Message edited by: cwa46 ]

 

[Anonymous]

I've always thought the whole "0 nitrates" thing was a bit over rated myself. It's all about balance, not conquering one or two nutrients.

Glenn

 

[AF Founder]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davelin315:
<STRONG>No offense meant to the revered Shimek, he knows more than I do, but if he thinks that nitrate levels of 80ppm are not harmful, then I have lost a lot of respect for what he says (although I trust other reefers opinions more than the so called experts). I don't know how he can say something like that no matter how much knowledge he has amassed. Nitrates that high will not only cause ridiculous amounts of algae in your tank that can overgrow corals, but would doubtless be harmful to corals and fish as well. That's like adding fertilizer to your tank.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tend to believe that Ron is correct about the relative harmlessness of nitrates. Incidently, The 80-ppm of ntitrates you are speaking of is it nitrate/nitrogen or nitrate. Most kits measure nitrate/nitrogen, and to get nitrate you have to multiply by 4.4., which would give you 352-ppm.
In any case, in my experience it is orthophosphates that are problematic when they rise above 0.1-ppm. It is the presense of orthophosphates that has been shown to slow coral growth, and at higher levels to prevent calcification, leading to the death of stony corals and coralline algae.

Terry