so....I don't need a skimmer?

[FLOPPYFISH]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>You don't need a skimmer.
Jim <hr></blockquote>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>I agree with Jim, save your money and buy some salt so you can do water changes instead.
Steve <hr></blockquote>
So i don't need anyother filtration besides lr, how many lbs. of it and how much water should i be changing? weekly,bi-weekly? what about additives i may put in the tank? or additives i shouldn't put in there? I have a 15gal. for those just tuning in.size(24*12*12)i don't know, being a beginer i would like that extra help that a skimmer would give me. am i wrong?
thanks again matt..
---------------
it ain't easy be'n cheesy

 

[esmithiii]

I would not do a tank that small for a reef as a beginner, IMO. Also, I think skimmers are essential for the new hobbiest, and for folks like me who are forgetful.

Ernie

 

[DEADFISH1]

I'm running a 7 gal bow front skimmer less, I change about 3 gal of water every weekend, I add no other additive, it's all in the water changes, just be sure to use a good brand like Kent that contains all the essentials, the only thing I test for is the salinity, it's easy, a lot easier than my 58 gal., I've got Red sea zinnia's, Candy Cane Coral, Pineapple Corals, shrooms, button polyps, 1 Fire Fish, 1 Coral Banded Shrimp and 5 or so snails, some corals are getting so big that I'm going to have to transfer them to the 58 gal.
If I had it to do all over again I would have started with the 7 Gal first.

 

[Anonymous]

NO, you do not need a skimmer!
I learned this after spending my hard earned money on them in the beginning. Now, on bigger tanks I would definitely run a skimmer as the workload and expense of large water changes would negate any advantage of going skimmerless. However, on such a small tank doing a waterchange takes you 5 minutes. When you do this waterchange you export nutrients that a skimmer would normaly remove, you also replensish trace elements and calcium.
I'm running a 7 gallon bowfront mini-reef on my desk at work - no skimmer. My 50 at home also has no skimmer. Now those that say this might not be a good idea for a beginner might have a point however, as you develope a kind if of intuition with experience that allows you this kind of short cut. The initial algae blooms will probably be a little worse too.
It can be done, and it works as long as you're not lazy.
Feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions.

[email protected]

Cheers
Jim

 

[Anonymous]

A skimmer isn't required, but a tank with a skimmer is a lot more forgiving.

in my opinion, alk and calcium are the only things worth supplementing (if you choose to supplement at all). For a new tank, it's simply not important--it'll be a few months before your tank gets an appetite for those two. It would be a good idea to read up on it now. Don't supplement anything that you don't test for.

 

[sos1]

Most nano-reefers I've talked to (20gal or less) do not use a skimmer. I also do not use a skimmer in my 27gal reef. The only filtration I have is 35lbs of LR, and weekly 15% water changes.

 

[SPC]

The logic I was using with my reply was based on the size of your tank. I have never had a SW tank this small but to me you could do a 25% (3 to 4 gallon) water change each week and get the same or better results than a skimmer would give you. If my logic is wrong I hope somone will chime in and correct me.
Steve

 

[FLOPPYFISH]

With no skimmer or other filtration how do i keep the oxygen up in my tank? from the powerhead, water changes?
Thanks Matt

 

[esmithiii]

For O2, make sure you have enough circulation and that will ensure good gas exchange.

As for my comments, I still feel that a nano-reef is not a good way to learn about this hobby. Just my opinion. Larger tanks are more forgiving. Some aspects of the nano that also make it more difficult is they typically experience high evaporation rates since it is much easier to have 20X turnover/hour in a 15gal tank versus a 180. Also, a DSB is not big enough to support the kind of live to process nitrates in a nano. It is just my opinion, but I believe that nano's are for more experienced reefers.

Just my $.02.

Ernie

 

[SPC]

I agree with Ernie's above comments, a nano should be for those with experience. Personally I would never have one due to the never ending balancing act I think one would encounter. In a tank with this little water volume, one dead snail could throw the levels out of whack.
Steve

 

[DEADFISH1]

yea, in the winter evaporation is not so much a problem, but in the summer, yikes, the water level will sometimes drop about 1/4" a day. the fan I put in the light fixture causes a lot of the evaporation, but you need that to keep the temp down.
I've got mine in sitting in my kitchen, I put a 3 gal. bucket in the cabinet above with an IV line that I got from the vet running down to the tank, I adjusted the drip until it's just right, if its off a little I just add what is needed.
I would like to have a float valve set up but I'm unable to find one small enough, I would say that temp and evaporation is the biggest challenge.

I think having a mini tank first is a good idea, your going to have chalenges either way, if you give up you can easily pick it up and give it back, inturn saving lives, and if you do like the hobby you have an instant grow out tank when you decide to go larger.

 

[DEADFISH1]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SPC:
<strong>I agree with Ernie's above comments, a nano should be for those with experience. Personally I would never have one due to the never ending balancing act I think one would encounter. In a tank with this little water volume, one dead snail could throw the levels out of whack.
Steve</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good water changes and frequent inspections will solve that problem, I feed my tank brine almost every day, with no problems, and once a week I feed the corals a verity of meaty foods, I've got so many hungry mouth in their that what ever did die would eventually be consumed anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

My 7 gallon nano is my favorite tank. I'm thinking of condensing my 50 gallon (formerly condensed from a 92 gallon) into another 7 gallon bowfront. It's much easier on my wallet, and it looks nicer!
Jim

 

[FLOPPYFISH]

It seems like the only people who don't recomend doing a nano are the people who don't have one. I am competant enough to do it right, i have plenty of time to do the research and im not very impatient with this, yes the water can go bad surprisingly fast but i'll have all the answers for whatever goes wrong anyway, i'll have the answers before things go wrong so most likely things won't go wrong. besides what college students have a couple thousand dollars to setup a 90 or 125gal tank just for some extra forgiveness! seems like alot of wasted money because the way i see it if something will go wrong in a 15gal tank its only a matter of time till that same person ruins his 55 or 90gal wasting much more money and life!!!!

 

[DEADFISH1]

here Floppyfish-
Reefcentral Nano Reef forum:
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=cf9a7e713ee0a9eb07fb1c6664061d35&forumid=75

you'll find more Nano reefers here

 

[DEADFISH1]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by DEADFISH:
<strong>here Floppyfish-
Reefcentral Nano Reef forum:
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=cf9a7e713ee0a9eb07f b1c6664061d35&forumid=75

you'll find more Nano reefers here

</strong><hr></blockquote>

never mind, I see your allready there

 

[SPC]

Farewell Floppy, I hope you find a board where everyone agrees 100% with you.
Steve

 

[Anemone]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by FLOPPYFISH:
<strong>It seems like the only people who don't recomend doing a nano are the people who don't have one. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't agree. I have (in order of appearance) a 65 gallon, 40 gallon, 80 gallon, and a 6 gallon (all reefs). I woould not recommend a nano to anyone who has not kept a larger tank.

As others have said, too many things can go wrong, and if you haven't kept a larger tank, you really aren't sure what you're looking at/for.

Besides the obvious water stability issues, there's just plain more room in a larger tank (Duh!) - and a new hobbyist will overstock their tank. The extra volume will allow you to get away with this just a bit more than in a nano.

JMO,
Kevin

 

[DEADFISH1]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Anemone:
<strong>

I don't agree. I have (in order of appearance) a 65 gallon, 40 gallon, 80 gallon, and a 6 gallon (all reefs). I woould not recommend a nano to anyone who has not kept a larger tank.

As others have said, too many things can go wrong, and if you haven't kept a larger tank, you really aren't sure what you're looking at/for.

Besides the obvious water stability issues, there's just plain more room in a larger tank (Duh!) - and a new hobbyist will overstock their tank. The extra volume will allow you to get away with this just a bit more than in a nano.

JMO,
Kevin</strong><hr></blockquote>

I kindly disagree, I've found that frequent water changes can slow down water instability, I tested at first but found that it was a waste of time.
just think, 3 gal water changes per week in a 7 gal tank that probably is really 5 gal of water is practically the same as changing 35 gal in a 58 gal tank every week, (I'm sure I'm not 100% on the math), but if you did that your practically wasting your money on a skimmer in any tank.

I don't know about anyone else but I check out my tanks every day, sometimes I even stair at them for hours, if something crocked in my tank I'm going to know about it, and if so I'll take what ever it is out and do a quick water change, problem solved.

some people may not have room for a large tank and their only option would be a nano or nothing.

if you ask me, the large tanks are not really that suited for reefs, reefs naturally are in shallow water, a nano is perfect in that aspect, it's like their in about a foot of water wear as in a large tank it's about 3' of water, so in a nano you don't have to have really high powered light to penetrate, that's why my Red see zinnias are squatty, they don't have to reach so far to get the light that they need.

I will agree with you if they do water changes on a nano the same way most people do in their larger tanks, if you do that it's pure disaster, the water changes I believe is the key to a happy nano, second key factor is to have only 1 maybe 2 small fish but no more, 2 is really pushing it on the bio load.

I would like to say that this is my favorite web forum, mainly for the reason that their are so many differences in opinion and so many great idea's and so much good information, that with an intelligent open mind you can come up with the best solution for yourself.

 

[esmithiii]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

if you ask me, the large tanks are not really that suited for reefs, reefs naturally are in shallow water, a nano is perfect in that aspect, it's like their in about a foot of water wear as in a large tank it's about 3' of water, so in a nano you don't have to have really high powered light to penetrate, that's why my Red see zinnias are squatty, they don't have to reach so far to get the light that they need.

This statement is not accurate. Many corals are in water over a meter deep. My 180 is only 2' deep, shy of the meter plus where many corals reside.

In a nano tank you do not have the area for a DSB to work properly. You do not have the diversity that you do in a larger tank. You are severely limited in the fish that you can stock, just as one example.

My point is not that large tanks are "better" than nano-reefs, nor that nano-reefs are "bad." just that I think it is a mistake to recommend to a newbie that he/she start one.

The barrier to entry for a large tank is high. No one disputes that. When someone pays in excess of a grand on a tank it is more important to them that the tank is successful.

I will tell you that my 180 is ten times simpler to maintain than my 55 ever was. IMO it is much easier to "understock" a larger tank than a small one. I believe "understocking" (with fish that is) is key to a successful reef.

I respect your opinion, and hope to have a small reef in the future (when my wife will let me,) but again reiterate that I think it is a mistake to recommend to newbies that they start with a nano-reef.

Ernie