How can we get more people to stick with this hobby?

[Carpentersreef]

The way I see it, parents are the ones that make the aquarium purchases for their kids starting out in aquarium keeping, and the parents probably have very little experience/knowledge in this area.
For the most part, they rely on manufacturers' claims of success with their particular setup.
As parents are the ones paying for the setups, I see a problem that the products purchased don't live up to the positive results implied.
How can we persuade manufacturers to take a more scientific approach (via marketing) to the long term success of aquarium keeping?
I've watched lots of families with kids ceremoniously bury their pet fish, and sell the aquarium setup at the next available garage sale. Usually the problem was overfeeding and no one had any understanding of the consequences.
In looking through many aquarium magazines, it seems to me that manufacturers are selling fantasy, not science. I never see any adds for microscopes or magnifying glasses, or other things that help somebody really see what is in their aquarium and what a particular life form needs to survive.

Maybe this belongs in the editorial section.

Mitch

 

[MiNdErAsR]

Bottom line? Money. The overall good of the hobby is not necessarily the concern of the manufacturer, although it certainly should be! Long term success equals repeat customers. How many of those companies would want the consumer to know that he/she really doesn't need that fantabulous trickle filter or canister filter in order to maintain a reef aquarium? Just look at all the magic potions and equipment being offered for an instant reef tank. Capitalism at it's best.

Education is the key here. Parents as well as their children should be encouraged to do a little research before making a purchase. Unfortunately we live in a "disposable world". How many dogs (or cats) for instance, are abandoned because people didn't realize just how much work is involved, or how big that dog is going to get? In a perfect world, people (including pet shop owners) would have to earn the right to keep (or sell) a particular pet, whether dog, cat, reptile, or reef aquarium. In most areas the dog has to be licensed to legally keep it. Perhaps part of that licensing process should include the potential owner showing a basic knowledge for keeping that animal. Let this apply to all creatures kept as pets. At the same time make people (including pet shop owners) accountable.

I know, I'm asking a bit much. Climbing down from my soapbox.

IMO

[ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: MiNdErAsR ]

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with Jim and would add.

This is not for people who want to set up a tank and dust it once and a while. There is work to be done and many people make these purchases with the same frame of mind as purchasing furniture.

 

[Anonymous]

The overall idea of what an aquarium is to the general public needs to be changed. People think of aquariums as glorified flower pots. It something colorful to put in the living room that is routinely replaced as it either dies or they get tired of it. Aquariums aren't pets to most people. It's like a really neat painting or knick knack. They don't want to do any work to maintian them they want everything as cheap and easy as possible. It really has nothing to do with the manufacturers. The manufacturers prey on beginning hobbyist who don't know any better. At least they are looking at an aquarium magazine. Most of the people who sell their aquariums never looked at an aquarium magazine or any thing like that. This is one reason why I hope the prices on salt water fish never come down. In freshwater, the majority is at least farm raised so that it's not that big of an impact on the environment.

Glenn

 

[kipreefer]

I think there are a few basic things that will help keep hobbiest in the hooby. I work at LFS actually a Petco, go ahead and scoff I know. We actually have a very nice fish department I actually will buy fish myself for my reef there everyonce and a while. But back to the topic. First people need to realize that the aquarium wont take care of itself. Second, people need to learn that fish do die often times because of the peoples error not the LFS. Third people need to understand the Nitrogen cycle and realize it is not okay to add 10 fish to a 10 gallon on the first day. I often times have freshwater customers that have thought about starting a saltwater but have been afraid. I then coach them so to say in maybe the best decision to take to stick with fresh or move to salt and I ussually can tell who will take to salt and who wont.
Like for example today at work some lady was pointing to some damsels and asked if she could buy a few. She then asked if you need more then one to keep each other comapny and I said "no, becasue they are actually kind of teritorial and I wouldnt recommend keeping more then one in a small aquarium. She then questioned me if I was sure or not and I said positive. Now this is were it gets funny she says can these go with goldfish, and inside my head I go "WHAT" I then calmly told her that these were salt water and that they cant go with goldfish. The next thing she asked was well what do I ahve to do I then told her that salt is really hard and goldfish are childs play to scare her off. This here is a example of the intelligence of the American population on the topic of aquarium fish. Most people dont care about the science of the hobby thet just want something to impress their friends with.

One word Education

 

[Mabu]

This has less to do with the aquarium hobby and is more-or-less a sociological/psychological issue.

(IMO) We live in a society where people are systematically being conditioned to be lazier and have shorter attention spans. All the conveniences we enjoy tend to make us more apprehensive to "work hard" for various rewards. We also are so heavily bombarded with information and 30-second soundbytes that we don't seem to have much patience any longer. Every time we turn around, there's something "new and improved", in prettier packaging, version 2.0, something breaks and we need to replace it, etc.

The problem with people getting bored with aquaria is a problem with people in society who think a fish tank is not any different from a Nintendo game: they play it for a few days, and get bored and want something else.

The solution to our issue lies more in making people realize that the most rewarding things take time and patience. That we should always strive to learn and become better at whatever we pursue, etc.

I think a good start too, is taking your kids off Prozak and acting like a parent, but hey, that's just my 0.02

 

[Wind]

I thik a lot has to do with financial reasons.. For me it is. It has limited me to the type of equipment I use..

I'm sure there is more factor, like education as mentioned.. Knowledge.

 

[Xscreamist]

I believe your all right about educating the general public before they setup a saltwater tank. Unfortunately thats why there arent alot of people starting tanks in the first place, that and the money. I didn't setup a saltwater tank because I had been told you need to be a chemist to get the tank to cycle correctly. Plus people told me that you needed a very large volume of water to get the tanks to cycle. Some of you will remember that only a few years ago (before instant ocean) that was the case. As the post above by Kipreefer clearly shows, there are alot of people using scare tactics to keep people from setting up saltwater tanks. What Kipreefer should have done was explain to the women what she would need to keep that type of fish, and if she wasnt ready to do that he should have suggested a simpler type of fish tank...scaring people away from the hobby is not the answer...and charging exuberant amounts for fish and supplies isn't either. Saltwater fish should be less expensive than freshwater ones. After all 70% of the world is covered by ocean; where as tropical fish need to be gathered from remote places (south american African rivers). The retailers have been running the scam of saltwater for too many years. This would change if there were more people in the hobby...so please encourage don't discourage new hobbyists.

 

[Carpentersreef]

O.K., so I guess we all know who the students are, but whom are students going to for the education?
Magazines, if you don't know anyone, I've got a serious problem with people looking at slick marketing as a starting guide for animal care,
Pet stores, where you have 2 levels of animal care knowledge (owners differ from employees),
and The internet, of course

Anywhere else?

Oh yeah, I see Inland Reef Aquaria offer seminars. Great idea! Wish more LFS' would do that!

Mitch

[ October 07, 2001: Message edited by: Carpentersreef ]

 

[Terry B]

I like Jim's idea about requiring a license. If people are not interested enough to read a book and learn the basics before starting then those people should be discouraged. If they had to pass a test to prove they have the basic knowledge on how to care for whatever animal they want to keep a lot of animals would be spared. I also think that quarantine should be emphasized more. This simple practice prevents so many deaths.
Terry B

 

[SPC]

Mitch, you didn't mention books or other hobbiest. I started by reading the reef boards and at the same time reading the books recommended on the reef boards. My LFS gives my phone # to anyone seriously (about 1 in 50) thinking about setting up a reef. Now I'm no expert on reefs but my LFS knows that I have learned and practice the most up to date methods for reef keeping. For anyone who hasen't had the chance to work or just help out at an LFS I would say you are in for quite an eye opener. As a matter of fact my LFS is getting ready to drop all of their SW due to being in the red in this section of the store.
According to the pet industry, the keeping of aquariums in general has been falling for a # of years, this incldes FW (please correct me if I am wrong with this Jenn or other people in this business).
Back to the point I was trying to make, when the student is ready a teacher will appear. Now don't get me wrong I realize that there are good as well as bad teachers, but in this information age that we live in I can't see how it is a problem to find good teachers if you are serious about having a successful tank. One more example, someone comes up to me or the LFS employee and asks what it will take to get into SW. The first thing we tell them is to buy a good book (The Conscientious Marine Aquarist for example). They walk over and pick up the book, thumb through it, look at the price and say "man that book is expensive". They then leave saying "thanks I'll have to think about it".
Steve

 

[JennM]

Actually my research indicates that aquarium keeping is actually increasing in popularity. However, the information about wny 80 % quit in the first 6 months rather cancels out all but the 20 % who stick with it...

If LFS staff aren't properly educated, it's easy to see why the SW dept would be in the red, because they would be losing all their income to deaths or losing sales to more knowledgable LFS. I think there is money to be made by those who are well-informed, but those who aren't, won't.

As for sources of information, only 29% of marine hobbyists ever join any kind of aquarium society or club. I'm not sure how many get magazines, but I've seen some articles I totally disagree with, and I know of at least one species "guru" whose ideas scare me...they are so antiquated...but I digress.

The MAJORITY of hobbyists start and end with the LFS. While I totally agree that the ultimate responsibility lie with the end-user, the hobbyist, the blame or credit for failure or success most often falls on the shoulders of the LFS and its staff.

Case in point: in my exprience in the retail end of the business, I became aquainted with over 300 customers. At least there were 320 who put their name down to receive bulk email from the store I worked at. Several declined, or don't have Internet, so that's probably 400 or so....JUST in the store *I* worked at. Our reef club has about 20 members who show up with any regularity. Of all the customers I encountered, I advised almost all of them of the existance of the club (since I'm running it...I was promoting it, and since I had a "captive" audience I had ample opportunity). About 75 subscribe to the club's email, but 20 regular attendees out of about 400 hobbyists is 5%. Dismal. Factor in the other customers of other stores (who didn't shop where I worked), and the stores posted notices etc., and the percentage goes even lower.

YES I've had the same experience...show them a book by Fenner or Moe, and they look at it and mutter about the price, but they won't think twice in a month's time about plunking down $79.99 for a Blond Naso and will wonder when it dies.

I have told countless people that the best investment they can make is a good book or two, or check them out of the library if they don't want to spend the money.

As long as people think that their LFS can fix all their problems, the books or other research tools are an unnecessary bother. If the LFS is qualified, then the hobbyist stands a chance, in spite of himself. If not, he's going to lose lots of money, lots of livestock and eventually his interest.

If I had a dollar for everyone who came to me or the store I worked for, who had taken bad advice, or bought a sick fish elsewhere, and brought it to us for treatment, or had made mistakes that reading even the $2 guide books put out by companies like Instant Ocean etc., I'd retire.

People are people, and by and large, many of us take the easiest and laziest way out...

Jenn

 

[SPC]

Jenn, I should have pointed out that I live in a much smaller area than Atlanta and that is the main reason for the store being in the red, not enough customers.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

One thing that bothers me is the lack of literature available for the LFS owner. We use the same books and information that hobbyist do. But we have to do it on a much larger scale. We unpack boxes of fish not bags. We constantly fight battles with disease, not from our lack of proper husbandry, but from poor wholesaling techniques or airport problems or delays. Most LFS owners or managers have their experience either from their own tanks at home or their tanks at their store. Essentially we are just like you. Yet there are no manuals for "The Conscientous LFS Owner." Most hobbyist deal with shady LFS's and the LFS deals with shady wholesalers. Those who substitute inappropriate specimens, or don't provide scientific names on their availablity lists. The LFS is typically seen as the "mecca" for information but all we have is the same books as you and experience.

Glenn

 

[JennM]

Rover, have you tried resources like AMDA? I know they have standards of practice for LFS.

Even recording deaths, and patterns (same species, same supplier, etc) that occur can help reduce mortalities.

A good quarantine system and responsible use of meds. Veterinary supervision is good too.

Unfortunately, some LFS owners do not keep their own tanks at home so ALL their experience is in the store.

I think there are a few key differences between large scale LFS tanks, and the home aquarist's tank. However, the basic principals of husbandry remain the same, and minimizing the stressors, and maintaining good water quality and providing a healthy diet and ample hiding places is the key in LFS or home aquarist success. Obviously there is more handling going on in LFS tanks, and more turnover, and often stocking levels are dense, so this presents differences but otherwise the basics are the same.

Jenn

 

[MiNdErAsR]

Just a suggestion for LFS owners/employees for getting customers to buy a book. Suggest Shimek's book as it's very inexpensive (~$10 at Amazon), and extremely helpful for the newbie in this hobby. Once a foundation is set, they will return to buy the more expensive books available as a craving for advanced knowledge builds.

IME

 

[Anonymous]

Jenn--
I've looked everywhere for a good reference on fish disease and treatment as applied to the retailer. Just a simple method of receiving fish and quarantine systems. Unfortunately my store does not have a quarantine system (yet), but we are able to isolate affected tanks. What I would like is some detailed methods on certain things like dips that can be done on arrival before placement in the system I have figured most of this out for myself, but it would be convenient for other owners/managers who may not have the resources. Some don't even know there are such things. The hobby has done an excellent job in recent years of getting the hobbysist more informed, I just think that some attention needs to be paid to this one. I know Fenner, Tullock, and Michael all either owned or ran an LFS, surely they could put together a simple how to. Or imagine a BB designed specifically for the shop owner?

Glenn

 

[Rich-n-poor]

why not start right here right now on this BB by answering as many newbie and intermeddiate reefers questions ?

how many of you with beautiful reefs answer newbie questions on a regular basis ? By doing so you will create a successful expierence in the new reefer and increase our ranks by one

maybe after hes successful hell do the same thing

and so on

and so on

and so on........

_________________
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[Anonymous]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rich-n-poor:
<STRONG>how many of you with beautiful reefs answer newbie questions on a regular basis ? By doing so you will create a successful expierence in the new reefer and increase our ranks by one</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will point out an observation yo may have missed. There are many on this board who are not quick to be the first to answer someones questions because there are many who handle these tasks

Watch for something to take place every week or so. You will see some older posters dig through the last 3 or 4 days questions and answer questions that have not a reply. I do it, Jenn does it, Butch does it, Cheese does it, Steve does it, etc, etc,. Because people are not always first to jump in does not mean they are not conserned about helping new people to the board. Rather they can do more by allowing others to answer the majority of the quetions and help those who are not getting help.

Just a simple observation.

 

[Rich-n-poor]

i am sure this is the case and i did not mean to say it wasnt

I only meant to say it is the most effective way to bring new people into the hobby and everyone should do it as much as possible

i can answer some simple questions about water chemistry or fish i have kept and even a few coral which i have but i rely on others advice when i get a new occupant for my tank or am considering making modification to my tank i.e. sump refugium ect

the post was only meant to bring about a little introspection and maybe motivate you to go from this post to the newbie / intermediate questions on the board and give them the benefit of your expierence

_________________
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