So Frustrated...Algae problems

[slojmn1]

My 120g reef has been set up for 13 months. For 8 of those months I have been, and continue, to battle with a short, brown, turf like algae that is covering all rocks, clams, and any hard surface exposed to light. Below are two pictures of the stuff.

I have tried the lawnmower blenny, he hated the stuff and eventually died as I could not get him to eat prepared foods. My Atlantic Blue tang actually picks at the stuff and eats some of it. He is fat and healthy but not making any impact on this stuff. I have 4 Queen conchs, they are growing and thriving but making no dent in the stuff. When I scrub with a toothbrush and get some of it off, and I mean a very small amount as it is fastened well to the rocks, I find coralline algae under a lot of it. This stuff is only covering more and more of my hard surface in the tank. It traps detritus and oxegyn bubbles all day long. I often blow the rocks with a turkey baster to get the bubbles off during the day. It is incrediably ugly. Tank params: Nitrates 0, pH 7.9-8.3, alk 9.0, cal 450. OI run a LifeReef skimmer and pull gunk out regularly. I run a calcium reactor and have always wondered if the CO2 is feeding it. I had the reactor off line for 2 weeks with no difference. I tested for phosphates with the Salifert test, damn hard to read, but there seems to be traces of phosphates. I use RO/DI water and replaced all filters a month ago, this water shows up with no phosphates. No change. On the underside of the rocks I have beautiful coralline algae and pretty colors, on top, well, the pictures speak for themselves. I run a refugium with reverse lighting and have very healthy macro algae growth. Interesting to note that none of this turf crap grows in the refugium. I use a LOA light over the refugium. I have 2x400w 65K iwasakis and 4x110 VHO actinics on regular light cycle. If the lighting is the problem how do I deal with it? Others run this lighting scheme and have none of this stuff in their tanks. All corals are not affected by this algae. The sps are able to encrust over it and kill it off, but that is just a consolation prize. I feed homemade fish food along with Sweetwater Zooplankton, Dt's, and golden pearls on a rotating schedule. I must say all fish, corals, and clams are very healthy, vibrant colors, and growing. My tank is just butt ugly with this stuff. My other tank, a 40g reef using the same water, PC lights, and only one fish with soft corals and a few lps has none of this algae. It has a couple of other kinds of algae but this is due to no algae grazers in the tank and years and years of natural growth. It actually looks pretty and is in very small amounts. I do feed a lot less to the 40g than the 120g. Any help out there? I have been scrubbing and suffering for 8 months, this is only getting worse. Help is very appreciated.

 

[Rich-n-poor]

what does your clean up crew consist of ?

I know i will get flamed for this but.....

have you considered some hermits ? I had some similar red and green turf type algea when i first set up my 37 gallon tank and i added some hermits and the ate it like it was going outta style .....

as matter of fact it is outta style I dont have a trace of it in my tank and thats with only 7 hermits 3 scarlet 2 blue and one left hander

but add hermits with some level of maderation and be sure to provide grow out shells for them as this will keep them from killing snails for shells

I say add a dozen and give them about a week to make a difference if it improves but they still arent up to the task add 3 more at a time till you reach a good balance

_________________
Bushmaster 2000

 

[slojmn1]

I have a very diverse clean-up crew, a variety of snails, bristle stars, pods, etc. I currently have 8 scarlet hermit crabs. I purposefully left out the blue legged variety as they are so pushy and aggressive in my 40g tank. The hermits cruise the rocks but don't seem to be make much of a dent in this stuff. I see them picking around in it but I am not sure what they are eating. I have grow out shells as well for these guys. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Carpentersreef]

slojmn1

Thanks for the detailed post! Sorry about your frustration. I think that nutrients of some kind are in excess and keeps feeding the algae. Are you adding any supplements? How much are you feeding daily or weekly? I cut back my ESV phytoplankton and noticed a huge decrease in diatoms. I've read that the addition of phytoplankton will cause the skimmer to have reduced production due to the highly unsaturated fatty acids contained in it. Maybe that's a possible source of the excess nutrients. I'm not familiar with LOA lamps, what are they? MH?
I did notice that your sandbed, although it has bubbles, is exceptionally clean - is it a recent addition? What is the water turnover from your main tank to the refugium? I wonder if the nutrients are staying in the main tank long enough to feed the bad algae and only a small amount is getting to the refugium. Sorry if your questions have only led to more!

Mitch

 

[chris_h]

As long as your corals are healthy dont worry to much about it. Any sort of an algae filter has always helped keeping algae growth low for me. You might want to try some caulerpa.

 

[Rich-n-poor]

some additiopnal thoughts:

I think carpenter is right on the excess nutrients in the tank feeding/furthering your algea bloom try reducing these supplements

What cycle is the lighting on ? do all lights come on at once or do you cycle the acinics on first and then after a while the MH's ?

some recent research ive been doing on coraline seems to indicate that coraline grows better under blue lights and somewhat lower light level I am currently experimenting with this in my tank perhaps you can shorten change the lighting cycle

8 hermits in 120 gallon tank seems low even to me While Im a big believer in diversity in crew over number this amouts to 1 crab to 15 gallons Most what I read recommemd 1 crab per gallon but i think this is excessive myself I would think that they are eating the algea but cant possibly keep up due to the tanks large size and their relatively low numbers I would still add more hermits maybe 6 initially and in groups of 3 after that

Good Luck

_________________
Mercedes MB100

 

[slojmn1]

Mitch, to answer your questions... I feed Dt's about 2x per week, 30ml. I feed my homemade brew of various fish from the local fishmarket soaked in ZOE and Selcon every other day. I feed Sweetwater Zooplankton on the off days once in a while. So basically I feed the tank every other day. I do target feed my 3 starfish as well so I don't have to feed to much excess. I do end up feeding excess that lands on the sand bed and in the rocks. The shrimp and hermits as well as the starfish scavenge that stuff, probably not all of it though. I have reduced my feedings in the past adn saw no change in the algae. maybe I did not wait long enough.

LOA lights-these are Lights of America lighting that you can get at Home Depot. They are in the 6000K spectrum and are a cheaper alternative to Power compacts for over a refugium. I have changed the bulb in the past month. There is a lot of info on these lights, just do a search here ont he board and you will read all about them.

My sandbed has been set up for the entire 13 months, it does stay nice and clean. this algae only inhabits the rocks. I agree that something is feeding this algae, I just can't figure out what. I can't stop feeding the fish, clams, and corals to stop that import.

chris h, Thanks for your reply. I have a refugium full of three different types of caulerpa and macro algaes. They are growing well and have not had any impact on this horrible looking stuff in the main tank. I try not to "worry" about it and I am grateful that my corals are in no way affected, but asthetically my tank is really ugly because of this stuff. I also feel there is an imbalance so it is important for me to get this handled. I have invested a whole lot of money into this tank and aside from being an ecosystem of healthy and growing creatures it is also a work of art that I put tremendous effort and hours into. This algae is like horrible graffiti all over my work of art.

 

[Goldmoon]

Hard to really see on your picture but could it be bryopsis??

see this webpage:
http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/algae_page/bryopsis.htm

 

[Carpentersreef]

You didn't mention supplements. Does that mean you don't add any? (Mg, Sr, Iodine, vitamins, ect.) You mentioned starfish, no white sand sifters, I hope, as they would have eaten any useful critters in the bed, and reduced it's waste processing ability. Return them to your LFS if you do have them. Have you noticed a reduction in the skimmer output after feeding? If you do try reducing feedings again, I would suggest a few weeks to notice any change, and during that time, yank out as much bad algae as you can, daily. Increase water changes, too. I would try to siphon detritus off the rocks, as you're doing the water changes. Basically, get rid of any excess nutrients hanging around, either tied up in the bad algae, or sitting around in the form of uneaten food.

Mitch

 

[KenH]

Hi slojmn1,
I'd recommend that you try putting one bag of the new Marc Weiss Phosphate and Silicate remover in your sump. Even if you can't measure phosphates, they can still be in there, just getting recycled by all that algae. Although I am not a Marc Weiss fan, this stuff seems to work and does not seem to have any downside like Phosguard and other aluminum based phosphate removers sometimes do. It seems to take about 6 weeks for this stuff to really have an affect, so be patient. I know professional reef tank maintainers who swear by this stuff for dealing with problem algae and I have used it myself with great success.

--- Ken
website: www.ReefCorner.Com

 

[Mabu]

Is it possible you have some silica-based rock or sand in the tank? I think that would cause what you describe as well. If you're using RO/DI water, check your filters.

 

[todd22]

I would recommend adding some GARF grunge and reef janitors. I too had a major outbreak of algae and put about 40 of GARFs janitors (consisting of hermits and cerriths)and a few pounds of grunge. Within days the hermits and snails cleared the rocks and now I have thousands of tiny copepods and such living in my sump and in the reef rocks. Shrimp are breeding in my sump constantly and I have these tiny snails that come out only at night and work non-stop. The snails also seem to be replenishing their numbers by the day, and the cerriths have laid eggs about 5 times now. I constantly am discovering new algae eating critters all over my tank. I suggest you give GARF a try if you have not already and they have awsome prices on corals (7 corals for 99$ +30 for shipping).

 

[davelin315]

I'm not a big urchin fan, as I have banished many an urchin to a basement pond from the reef, but try a long spined urchin. They are aggessive rock scrapers, and will cut down the algae in no time. However, be wary, as it could eat your polyps, damage membranes, and cause massive rock slides. I've heard that blue tuxedo urchins are less destructive, but I do not really trust any urchins except for a shingle (?) urchin I have (although I don't know if I even trust him). I think, though, that urchins will definitely eat your algae, and since most of them will actually take tiny bits of rock off as well, will probably remove any roots that the algae has put into your rock, ridding it of the algae for good. By the way, they will also mow down your coralline, but your coralline is probably providing the algae with a place to put its roots. Good luck. Oh, and try throwing in a couple of yellow tangs as well. They should get along fine with the atlantic blue, which in my opinion, is not as much of an algae eater as the yellow, or you could also try a kole tang.

 

[slojmn1]

These are some excellent ideas, let me respond to some of them.

Goldmoon, I don't think it is bryopsis, I have seen many a picture and this stuff is shorter and more bristle like, different color as well.

Carpentersreef, no white sand sifting stars. I know better. I have two serpant stars and 1 bristle star. I do not add supplements other than B-Ionic. I do weekly water changes of 20% or about 25g.

Mabu, no silica based sand or rock. Live rock was from Harbor Aquatics and had great life on it, sand is HD playsand.

KenH, sounds like a possibility there with the Marc Weiss stuff. I too am leary of his products and don't like to add chemicals or extra stuff to the tank. I prefer the natural way, but maybe it is time for this approach. thanks.

tmc22, I have a couple different detrivore kits from two different places. i am not fond of the GARF grunge, mud stuff. But maybe it is time to add another set of snails and such.

davelin 315, I have a blue tuxedo urchin that cruises the tank, he mostly stays off the rocks interestingly enough. He sticks to the back wall as there is a lot of coralline growth on the back wall. When he does cruise over the rocks I have never really noticed much of a difference in this algae stuff. I think he also cruises the undersides of the rocks as his favorite food source, the coralline, can be found there as well. I will contemplate the long spined urchin, but I am wary.

Thanks for the ideas. Keep em coming, this is so helpful.

 

[Anonymous]

I think that nuisance algae is a nutrient sink. When you measure PO4 you get nothing, because it is all locked up.
Try this: go in with a toothbrush and scrub a bunch of the nasty gunk. Then measre PO4. I think the scrubbing might liberate whatever nutrients this suff is using to live.
You could try harvesting the stuff to death. Quite a project in a tank that big.
How about decreasing the tang's food & see if it picks at the algae more? How about adding 1 or 2 sallylightfoot crabs?
Good luck.

 

[slojmn1]

moe_k, I did stop feeding my tang nori about 4 months ago and he did increase his picking at the rocks, unfortunately I think he just keeps it short but does nothing for the actual coverage. I am quite leary of sally lightfoot crabs. I have read a lot of nasty press on these little guys. Are they as risky as it seems they are? I do scrub the crap out of this stuff at least 2x's per week. I have never tested the water after scrubbing. I will definately do this. I think I may also try this Marc Weiss product mentioned above as well as cut back on my feedings by one third. I will target feed all animals in the tank and cut back on the Dt's by one third as well. Between these two approaches maybe I can decrease DOCs and phosphates. I'll give it about 2 months to see if there is any change. If anyone has any other ideas swing 'em my way. Thanks so much. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[North Bay 101]

Slojmn1,
Stop by tomorrow or Friday and you can have a phosphate pad. When I see some algae growth, I put a piece in the overflow and it helps. I was wondering how your tank was doing.

G

 

[smokin reefer]

Hello there slojmn1, sorry to here about your algea problem. Do you have any sponge filters of any sort in your tank? If so remove them now. I would also recommend a carbon filter, as big as one as you can get. Also quit with the spot feedings all together, and cut out soaking the food and all that other crap. Just feed them once per day of the fish food. Enough so a LITTLE BIT drops off for the stars, and the hermits and stuff. You might want to consider dripping some kalk, for this helps to percipatate PO out of your water. Keep up with the water changes also. And skim like hell. This worked for my GHA problem of 8 months. It just turned white and died. Hope it works for you.

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: smokin reefer ]

 

[Anonymous]

I am having the exact same problem with no response to the usual solutions. Please keep us posted on your progress if you use the Marc Weiss Phosphate and Silicate remover.

Mitch

 

[bigtank]

IME, Poly-Filter works very well for removing phosphates and all kinds of other stuff. It is a white mat that you can put in your sump. I've used it several times with great success, much better than carbon too.

How old are your MH and VHO bulbs? That might be part of the problem. Some people also report less problem algae after switching to a shorter photoperiod.