DIY Liverock
- Thread starter Reefer33
- Start date
I have a 30 g. tank full of homemade LR. I used crushed coral, aruba shells and portland cement from home depot. I mixed 5 parts CC with 2 parts aruba shells and 1 part cement and maybe a cup of water. it is time consuming to make but in the end it's worth it. I cured mine for about 4 months with water changes every 2 or 3 days. The Ph was off the scale for about 3 months then dropped quickly.
In that picture it's not "LIVE" rock but in time it will be colonized by the same creatures that inhabit store bought wild colected "LIVE" rock. The only difference between this rock and a rock you would probably find in you back yard is the density, this rock is very porous and water flows through it easily. Much like the coral produced rocks most of us have in our tanks. One advantage to producing your own rock is you can make the shapes and sizes to fit your particular aquarium and it's not being taken from the wild. Kind of like propagating corals but with CC and cement.
Let's clarify a few things here. It will eventually become "LIVE" with beneficial bacteria. However it is in no way the same as buying wild "LIVE" rock, which will contain the creatures that make it "LIVE", like copepods, worms, sponges, etc. The best results would be to seed some "LIVE" wild rocks with DIY rocks.
[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: gagnu ]
[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: gagnu ]
That's correct, none of the worms or pods will be on the rock but neither will any coralline or bacteria. You need to introduce everything to the tank and you do that by purchasing some wild rock for that. In my case I already have a 75g and a 20 g that have been running for years and are filled with wild rock. I take small pieces of rock from my tank(s) and place them in the tank with the homemade rock and in time (like my other tanks) the worms, pods, bacteria, coralline and anything else in the system will travel to the new rocks making them "LIVE". Another good thing is that you don't get mantis shrimp or unwanted crabs that will eat any fish you put in there.
I haven't try to make the "live" rock my self, but I have thought about it. The process reminds me of when I made sand candles when I was a kid. I think that free form cement rocks might work very well for building the lower part of the reef structure. In other words, you might be able to create some large, oddly shaped rocks with lots of caves, holes, nooks and crannies for your fish to swim through and hide in. If done right, these rocks could be made vary stable (like making a series of 3-legged tables). You can then add "real" live rock to the top of the cement rocks to complete the reef structure. If done right, you could end up with a more interesting and healthy reef structure while using less "real" live rock. The bigger the tank, the more this makes sense to do.
Another thing you can do is take raw, dry aragonite rock ( www.salt-solutions.com used to supply boxes of the stuff, but last I heard they were defunct...) and cement them together into large, nice shapes. (cement using cement & CC mixture)
This rock quickly gets colonized by coraline algea & critters. It's also easier than making an entire rock out of the gravel & cement mixture. Giving these a vinegar bath makes for nice effects, as well.
I've made a couple of nice ones - I'll try to post some pics of them.
This rock quickly gets colonized by coraline algea & critters. It's also easier than making an entire rock out of the gravel & cement mixture. Giving these a vinegar bath makes for nice effects, as well.
I've made a couple of nice ones - I'll try to post some pics of them.
- Location
- Virginia
Be careful about using cement which can have a very high lime content. If you do want to use cement, you should contact a locl pool builder and find the proper specialty cement. However, it could end up cost prohibitive in the end (asked a friend whose thesis was a public aquarium design before and he told me about the dangers of leeching into the water, and sealing it would defeat the purpose).
I make a significant amount of rock, and I do it really inexpensively. It has worked very well, and I'm getting ready to start another tank in a few months, so I actually have several batches curing right now.
First, you *will* need a few pieces of wild rock. If not wild, then try to get a few small pieces from several different established aquariums. A cup or so of sand from the different aquariums will help also. The only difference between baserock and liverock is time. Sometimes I think the "liverock" in the LFS looks more like baserock.
The rock itself is actually made from a combination of crushed oyster shell, sand, and Type II cement. The crushed oyster shell can be found in 50 and 100 lbs bags (at least in my area) at any good feed store. It's used as a supplement for chickens. I happen to live in hickville, so finding it is easy. I also throw in crushed seashells, and while I haven't tried it yet, I hear that shredded plastic 2 litre bottles are another excellent additive (I've been meaning to try it).
Cruise to the LFS and ask for the styrofoam boxes they get LS shipments in. I make my rock in the boxes, and then set them in the garage to cure. Once the concrete has cured, they go into a kiddie pool for at least two months to leach. I change the water in the pool rather frequently (it's inline in an irrigation system at a friends ranch, again, it's sometimes good to live in hickville).
The really cool part about the rock is that it's completely porous. Water just flows right through it. It's pretty solid, although thinner bits do break. Just toss them back in to the next batch of slurry for even larger pores.
I've found the best shapes come from making lattices out of the slurry. Just kinda alternate strands of slurry with filling in raw oyster shell. Email me for better directions. When it cures, it looks like a huge solid lump. But hit it for a while with the hose, and the unconcreted oyster shell gets washed away, and you're left with a rock with tons of little caves and holes. Further sculpting can be done (I use a hammer) by chipping away additional bits.
Other good shapes are plates, branches and arches. I tried to make a couple of tables once, but the legs broke off under load.
Here's the best part. Crushed oyster shell is about $.05 per lbs. The Type II cement is regular HD stuff, at about $.02 per lbs. I figure it costs me less than $.10 per lbs in materials, but we won't discuss time.
I would *strongly* recommend you try it. It's easy, cheap, and fun. Another reefer and I get together to make it. A small percentage of our efforts have actually ended up in real tanks (and none of the first several sets: major suckage). But I've almost got the assemblage ready for the 125 I keep dreaming about (thank you electric bill, at least the wife thanks you
).
Speaking of this topic, here's an idea I've been kicking around. I was thinking of making a rock up in the corner of the box, so that it had two perfect sides at 90 degrees, to sit about an inch away from the corner of my tank (for glass cleaning). I'm trying to build the rock structure upwards. Do you think this is a good idea? The rock is porous enough it shouldn't impede all water flow.
First, you *will* need a few pieces of wild rock. If not wild, then try to get a few small pieces from several different established aquariums. A cup or so of sand from the different aquariums will help also. The only difference between baserock and liverock is time. Sometimes I think the "liverock" in the LFS looks more like baserock.
The rock itself is actually made from a combination of crushed oyster shell, sand, and Type II cement. The crushed oyster shell can be found in 50 and 100 lbs bags (at least in my area) at any good feed store. It's used as a supplement for chickens. I happen to live in hickville, so finding it is easy. I also throw in crushed seashells, and while I haven't tried it yet, I hear that shredded plastic 2 litre bottles are another excellent additive (I've been meaning to try it).
Cruise to the LFS and ask for the styrofoam boxes they get LS shipments in. I make my rock in the boxes, and then set them in the garage to cure. Once the concrete has cured, they go into a kiddie pool for at least two months to leach. I change the water in the pool rather frequently (it's inline in an irrigation system at a friends ranch, again, it's sometimes good to live in hickville).
The really cool part about the rock is that it's completely porous. Water just flows right through it. It's pretty solid, although thinner bits do break. Just toss them back in to the next batch of slurry for even larger pores.
I've found the best shapes come from making lattices out of the slurry. Just kinda alternate strands of slurry with filling in raw oyster shell. Email me for better directions. When it cures, it looks like a huge solid lump. But hit it for a while with the hose, and the unconcreted oyster shell gets washed away, and you're left with a rock with tons of little caves and holes. Further sculpting can be done (I use a hammer) by chipping away additional bits.
Other good shapes are plates, branches and arches. I tried to make a couple of tables once, but the legs broke off under load.
Here's the best part. Crushed oyster shell is about $.05 per lbs. The Type II cement is regular HD stuff, at about $.02 per lbs. I figure it costs me less than $.10 per lbs in materials, but we won't discuss time.
I would *strongly* recommend you try it. It's easy, cheap, and fun. Another reefer and I get together to make it. A small percentage of our efforts have actually ended up in real tanks (and none of the first several sets: major suckage). But I've almost got the assemblage ready for the 125 I keep dreaming about (thank you electric bill, at least the wife thanks you
Speaking of this topic, here's an idea I've been kicking around. I was thinking of making a rock up in the corner of the box, so that it had two perfect sides at 90 degrees, to sit about an inch away from the corner of my tank (for glass cleaning). I'm trying to build the rock structure upwards. Do you think this is a good idea? The rock is porous enough it shouldn't impede all water flow.
So far I have had success with my rock. I would stay away from the vinegar for the first month or so because cement cures for 6 to 8 weeks before the chemical reactions are completed. I tried a quick cure on some propagation discs and they fell apart. I have 2 table pieces with three legs as my base then several caves and arches. I made about 15 fairly large pieces for my 30g tank. I probably spent $40.00 tatol and I have enough cement to make a thousand pounds more. The special cement that davelin315 mentioned is way to expensive to make it worth while. As for lime in the cement, it's no different than the kalk. we drip into our tanks. The Ph is the most important thing because no marine creatures we keep can live in a tank with a Ph of 10. All the other elements like gypsum and silicates will be removed with the algae blooms when cycling the tank. I agree with cheese sandwich with the dry aragonite rock but making the rock is most of the fun. When I make my rock I make the mixture thick, it's easier to work that way. Then form it in trays or boxes with CC and then cover your creation with more CC till cured (about 2 days) then place in water. The mixture I mentioned above make very porous rock like tufa or lace rock seen in stores. My tank is going through it's diatom algae bloom as we speak. I have 4 95w VHOs over the tank so the algae is growing fast but the snails are mowing it down.
I have about 35 pounds of it in my 55 and then somewhere around 50 pounds of live rock from the wild - And yes I have some Florida Rock that I have had since I got into the hobby ! - I hae not seen any adverese affects from using this rock -
I mix mine 4-5 parts Shells, Sand, Black Rocks ( Not real sure what it is really called but it come from the sea) and 1 to 1 1/2 part Portland Cement - then Form it in several layers over a few days to create some really natural looking rock - When I get a Camera I will post some pics of it -
I let mine cure in Freshwater for about 4 months then another month in Saltwater at a SG of about 1.30 or more, then in the final stage I cure it in Saltwater at around 1.026 like you would keep your reef tank at and begin areating and moving water in the curing for about another week or so -
Then letting it sit in a 5 gallon bucket I measure PH and Cal levels to be sure it is cured -
I look for a PH of around 8 or lower and Calcium at around 400 -
I think you get a good affect using this rock if you add it slowly and not a whole bunch at one time - It will continue to leech some Clacium, probably some Phosphates but not much - My Phosphates is near 0 in my tanks and help buffer PH .
I do think you should have more real rock than Homemade rock, because Live Rock form the wild contains good bacteria, Pods, Etc and far outperforms homemade rock as a filter, even though the homemade rock will eventually become LR -
I do know one person who is running 80% Homemade rock and is not having a problem with his tank but actully has Coraline, Feather Dusters, and various corals and other things growing on all his rock - Better than that of Wild Rock.
It is really up to you, I think it is lots of fun and rewarding because you get to create your rock the way you want it.
I mix mine 4-5 parts Shells, Sand, Black Rocks ( Not real sure what it is really called but it come from the sea) and 1 to 1 1/2 part Portland Cement - then Form it in several layers over a few days to create some really natural looking rock - When I get a Camera I will post some pics of it -
I let mine cure in Freshwater for about 4 months then another month in Saltwater at a SG of about 1.30 or more, then in the final stage I cure it in Saltwater at around 1.026 like you would keep your reef tank at and begin areating and moving water in the curing for about another week or so -
Then letting it sit in a 5 gallon bucket I measure PH and Cal levels to be sure it is cured -
I look for a PH of around 8 or lower and Calcium at around 400 -
I think you get a good affect using this rock if you add it slowly and not a whole bunch at one time - It will continue to leech some Clacium, probably some Phosphates but not much - My Phosphates is near 0 in my tanks and help buffer PH .
I do think you should have more real rock than Homemade rock, because Live Rock form the wild contains good bacteria, Pods, Etc and far outperforms homemade rock as a filter, even though the homemade rock will eventually become LR -
I do know one person who is running 80% Homemade rock and is not having a problem with his tank but actully has Coraline, Feather Dusters, and various corals and other things growing on all his rock - Better than that of Wild Rock.
It is really up to you, I think it is lots of fun and rewarding because you get to create your rock the way you want it.
Thanks for all the replies! I knew that Garf made this stuff and even sets their tanks up with almost 100% homemade rock. I was just curious as to if anybody was actually trying this out and if they were having very much success with it. Has anybody had any faster cure rates than 4 months? I have heard that if you use Carib Sea aragonite based gravel with a mixture of about 5 to 1 you can get faster cure rates with this stuff but since I have never made any of this stuff I couldn't tell you. I am glad to hear at least that some people are experimenting with this stuff. Keep me posted on your updates. Thanks!
I forgot to add one thing -
My Star Polyps and the thousand of little feather dusters have showed signs they love this rock -
My star polyps started with jost 2 colonies and have now grown onto 4 more rocks in spots and coraline is starting to grow not that I am back at dripping Kalk -
I was trying a different method to keep CAl up but I don't think anything works as good as Kalk..
My Star Polyps and the thousand of little feather dusters have showed signs they love this rock -
My star polyps started with jost 2 colonies and have now grown onto 4 more rocks in spots and coraline is starting to grow not that I am back at dripping Kalk -
I was trying a different method to keep CAl up but I don't think anything works as good as Kalk..
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