A
Anonymous
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You want zero detecable nitrates on a low-range test kit.
Nitrate levels up to 40ppm are usually not harmful for fish. In fact i've seen tanks with 100ppm nitrates and the fish were still alive.
This however would not be good for corals.
Keep the levels under 20 if you have corals. But certainly the close to 0 the better. Ive found it hard to keep nitrate levels below 5ppm, but then again i havent done a water change in almost 2 years now...
This however would not be good for corals.
Keep the levels under 20 if you have corals. But certainly the close to 0 the better. Ive found it hard to keep nitrate levels below 5ppm, but then again i havent done a water change in almost 2 years now...
I agree zero is level you like to achieve, but depending on your bio-load it maybe difficult. Try to keep it as close to zero as you can. I wouldn't risk keeping it higher than 5-10ppm. Some corals are more forgiving than others, but you don't want to take the risk and lose some to find out which ones are.
Mike
Mike
very high nitrate levels are indeed toxic to your livestock. Its basically like being in your garage with your car on and the doors closed, you can breathe for a while, but eventually you will get sick and die.
Also keep in mind that some organism like some small leves of nitrates, such as clams.
Keeping nitrate at 5ppm is just fine.
Also keep in mind that some organism like some small leves of nitrates, such as clams.
Keeping nitrate at 5ppm is just fine.
Ron Shimek proposes chronic exposure to nitrate levels of 100ppm+ is acceptable for both fish and inverts.
You can find more on Ron's opinon on nitrates here.
(you can also find Ron's attitude towards dissenting views.)
My understanding is nitrate, in it of itself, is not a very toxic compound; Ammonia and nitrite are. However, its presence is generally indicative of other (possibly more virulent) problems. In high quantities, nitrate has been attributed to observable decline (e.g. growth rate, mortality, etc.) in invertabrate health. In fish, it is plausible to speculate high nitrate levels may also adversely affect their health. Fish employ bacteria and/or specific enzymes in their stomach for digestion purposes. A side effect of digestion may be the reduction of nitrates to nitrites. Nitrite, absorbed in bloodstream, will oxidize red blood cells and impede its ability to transfer oxygen. This leads to poor health or death by asphyxiation. This is speculative (I am not aware of any studies done on this), but I will present this as a possibility nonetheless. From personal observation, fish do not feed as voraciously in high nitrate (>50ppm) environments. Fish also exhibit more rapid respiration in presence of high nitrates (the aforementioned asphexiation, perhaps?). Decreased reproduction rates and egg mortality are documented consequences of high nitrate levels.
Personally, I don't think statements like "Levels upto 100+ ppm are fine. Nothing to get one's shorts in a twist about either way" (per R.Shimek) should go without specific qualification. It's an incomplete and irresponsible suggestion.
Anything under 20ppm I'd consider universally safe for inverts and vertabrates alike. I derived 20ppm from personal experience, anecdotal as it may be. Higher levels may still be beneign, but <20ppm is a safe target value.
[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Leonard ]</p>
You can find more on Ron's opinon on nitrates here.
(you can also find Ron's attitude towards dissenting views.)
My understanding is nitrate, in it of itself, is not a very toxic compound; Ammonia and nitrite are. However, its presence is generally indicative of other (possibly more virulent) problems. In high quantities, nitrate has been attributed to observable decline (e.g. growth rate, mortality, etc.) in invertabrate health. In fish, it is plausible to speculate high nitrate levels may also adversely affect their health. Fish employ bacteria and/or specific enzymes in their stomach for digestion purposes. A side effect of digestion may be the reduction of nitrates to nitrites. Nitrite, absorbed in bloodstream, will oxidize red blood cells and impede its ability to transfer oxygen. This leads to poor health or death by asphyxiation. This is speculative (I am not aware of any studies done on this), but I will present this as a possibility nonetheless. From personal observation, fish do not feed as voraciously in high nitrate (>50ppm) environments. Fish also exhibit more rapid respiration in presence of high nitrates (the aforementioned asphexiation, perhaps?). Decreased reproduction rates and egg mortality are documented consequences of high nitrate levels.
Personally, I don't think statements like "Levels upto 100+ ppm are fine. Nothing to get one's shorts in a twist about either way" (per R.Shimek) should go without specific qualification. It's an incomplete and irresponsible suggestion.
Anything under 20ppm I'd consider universally safe for inverts and vertabrates alike. I derived 20ppm from personal experience, anecdotal as it may be. Higher levels may still be beneign, but <20ppm is a safe target value.
[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Leonard ]</p>
Ron's sweeping statements are quite out of line IMO. I agree with Len that anything under 20-30 ppm are fine, however there is plenty of evidence regarding detriments occuring aat higher levels. Pocillopora damicornis stops reproducing at levels over 20ppm according to a study out of Australia which I will try to dig up tomorrow.
Hi:
As far as a tank full of inverts, I suspect you want as low as possible nitrAte levels, however in a FO tank, Fish seem quite tolerant of high nitrAtes, and what I find is that the fish can survive long term once acclimated.
Unlike the "car in the garage analogy", described above, IMO nitrates are more like smog, in that you can live in smog(actually quite high levels) and there are health risks associated w/ smog, but by in by its not directly lethal.(but can exacerbate a chronic condition)
AS mentioned above, nitrAtes levels in the high 80-100's are often found in FO tanks. I've cared for fish only tanks where the nitrAtes hover above what people are quoting here(40-60ppm), and many fish in this tank are older than a few yrs. What I have observed in a tank w/ high nitrAtes is that the introduction of new fish often doesn't work. I suspect the new fish can't handle both the stress of being introduced as well as the high nitrAtes together. Interestngly, fish which are acclimated to this tank do very well. I'm not sure what the reasons are, but i have seen this repeatedly.
Mick: May i ask -at what nitrAte levels are you mentioning where health problems have been documented, are these long term exposure cases?, or immediate introductions into a highly polluted environment?
my opinion
frank
As far as a tank full of inverts, I suspect you want as low as possible nitrAte levels, however in a FO tank, Fish seem quite tolerant of high nitrAtes, and what I find is that the fish can survive long term once acclimated.
Unlike the "car in the garage analogy", described above, IMO nitrates are more like smog, in that you can live in smog(actually quite high levels) and there are health risks associated w/ smog, but by in by its not directly lethal.(but can exacerbate a chronic condition)
AS mentioned above, nitrAtes levels in the high 80-100's are often found in FO tanks. I've cared for fish only tanks where the nitrAtes hover above what people are quoting here(40-60ppm), and many fish in this tank are older than a few yrs. What I have observed in a tank w/ high nitrAtes is that the introduction of new fish often doesn't work. I suspect the new fish can't handle both the stress of being introduced as well as the high nitrAtes together. Interestngly, fish which are acclimated to this tank do very well. I'm not sure what the reasons are, but i have seen this repeatedly.
Mick: May i ask -at what nitrAte levels are you mentioning where health problems have been documented, are these long term exposure cases?, or immediate introductions into a highly polluted environment?
my opinion
frank
My observations were of immediate introductions (up until 3-4 weeks in captivity). Notable species were Zebrasoma xanthurum, 3 species of Pseudoanthias sp., and Paracheilinus carpeteri. Observations were made at 3 local holding tanks (2 inteconnected 90s & a 60 gallon) with nitrate levels in excess of 50ppm (60g had NO3 levels over 100ppm). Rapid respiration in the first week was observed for all three Pseudoanthias species in the 60g (20+% of which died). In an isolated 80 gallon system with nitrate levels @ 10-15 ppm, same species from same shipments were introduced. These exhibited better appetite after a few days time. Note: this was not done as a controlled experiement; Fish were introduced and sold within the duration of 1-3 weeks. Observations are anecdotal, and I don't pretend they're anything but. Although there are many other variables that could have contributed to these results, my immediate conjecture was that acute exposure to high nitrate levels was the culprit. I have no idea the effects of chronic exposure nor do I have any experenice with acclimating fish to high NO3 levels. The thought of nitrate acclimation never occurred to me, but seems plausible. I, too, have seen fish survive for decades in high nitrate environments.
Judging by studies on fish reproduction in relation to NO3, I'd imagine prolonged exposure is problematic, though perhaps not readily apparent in our captive systems where spawning is infrequent or nonexistant. I'll see if I can dig up the articles (there is a distinct possibility these were studies of freshwater species ... an entirely different ballgame). What would make for a interesting experiment is to observe the effects of NO3 levels on successful spawning and fry rearing of Amphiprion or Pseudochromis species. It's possible NO3 has effects on reproductive modes for both marine vertebrates and invertebrates.
BTW, the smog analogy seems like a good one; intended or not, it infers that chronic exposure is deleterious to health.
[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Leonard ]</p>
Judging by studies on fish reproduction in relation to NO3, I'd imagine prolonged exposure is problematic, though perhaps not readily apparent in our captive systems where spawning is infrequent or nonexistant. I'll see if I can dig up the articles (there is a distinct possibility these were studies of freshwater species ... an entirely different ballgame). What would make for a interesting experiment is to observe the effects of NO3 levels on successful spawning and fry rearing of Amphiprion or Pseudochromis species. It's possible NO3 has effects on reproductive modes for both marine vertebrates and invertebrates.
BTW, the smog analogy seems like a good one; intended or not, it infers that chronic exposure is deleterious to health.
[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Leonard ]</p>
Frank I need to find the study again but IIRC the release of Planulae by P. damicornis dropped off dramtically as Nitrates rose. I'm going to assume that this was a long term thing since we are talking about reproduction but I do not have the study in front of me.
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