I do agree with everyone about the LR/Sand. However, if you just want to go fish only. I would go with a crushed coral substrate and the Coral Skeletons. If you don't want to keep the sump, I would recommend one of the new Fluval Systems. These have room for Bio-Balls if you want them, along with other sections for Carbon and anything else that you may want to put in. It has simple maintenance, and it is a closed system.
Wet\dry..Which one should I use?? Also sorry for posting twi
- Thread starter 31-2c
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 31-2c:
<strong>I do agree with everyone about the LR/Sand. However, if you just want to go fish only. </strong><hr></blockquote>
We are telling him how to do a fish only system. The method he wants to do is obsolete, unecessary and inhumane. It is a poor environment for the fish and just because it has been done in the past and is unfortunately still recommended by ignorant LFS's doesn't mean it is the proper way to provide a home for the fish.
<strong>I do agree with everyone about the LR/Sand. However, if you just want to go fish only. </strong><hr></blockquote>
We are telling him how to do a fish only system. The method he wants to do is obsolete, unecessary and inhumane. It is a poor environment for the fish and just because it has been done in the past and is unfortunately still recommended by ignorant LFS's doesn't mean it is the proper way to provide a home for the fish.
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Just because it's not the way you would do it doesn't mean he can't use it. If you want to do a fish only system without all the little pods etc. then a wet dry with bioballs is a good way to go. I would suggest one that is fairly light versus a glass one. I myself have 2 oceanic models, but they are very heavy. Granted, they are probably sturdier than the amiracles or similar brands, but they are also harder to work with if you want to make a modification. One thing to look foor on a trickle filter is how much air can be injected into your biochamber. It's important since you're housing only aerobic bacteria there that there is plenty of oxygen available for the bacteria to use. Also, you should look for something that has a baffle of some sort so that you can place any chemical filtration you want in that area to come in contact with all the water going through your system. Another thing to look for is one that will accomodate some sort of mechanical filtration without a lot of effort on your part to remove and clean it. I don't know the ease of the eheims, but they are supposed to be very simple to use as far as cannister filters are concerned. I would have a concern, however, for oxygen interaction. In a true trickle filter, you get more aeration through the filter being open to the air, versus a canister filter which is sealed off.
IF you go with a closed wet/dry, like the fluval or eheim, you will need to pump some air into the tank. A good air pump running a long or round airstone buried under the crushed coral should work.
Mick,
I didn't say I agreed with what he wants to do, but if that is what he is going to do, someone should at least help him get a good set-up.
Mick,
I didn't say I agreed with what he wants to do, but if that is what he is going to do, someone should at least help him get a good set-up.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Darkreignn:
<strong>Geez....Listen I want a fish only tank and want to know how to set it up without live rock and sand ok. This is not the first time someone is trying to attempt this. Please dont suggest live rock and sand please. Thats why I wanna go with the wet\dry filter..</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is the reason why you gaveup befor because it is too much work. A natural setup reef tank is very easy to maintain. You hardly even have to change water.
You are asking the wrong forum. For fish only, use a wet-dry filter with frequent water change to bring nitrate down is OK but too work intensive and not healthy for the fish. For me, I rather set up a reef tank and do minimal water change and don't have to clean all the rock and dead coral every two weeks to get those dirty brown algae off of them.
<strong>Geez....Listen I want a fish only tank and want to know how to set it up without live rock and sand ok. This is not the first time someone is trying to attempt this. Please dont suggest live rock and sand please. Thats why I wanna go with the wet\dry filter..</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is the reason why you gaveup befor because it is too much work. A natural setup reef tank is very easy to maintain. You hardly even have to change water.
You are asking the wrong forum. For fish only, use a wet-dry filter with frequent water change to bring nitrate down is OK but too work intensive and not healthy for the fish. For me, I rather set up a reef tank and do minimal water change and don't have to clean all the rock and dead coral every two weeks to get those dirty brown algae off of them.
Dude a WET/DRY will work fine for a fish only system and even for a reef tank...just not the most popular method at the current time.
What the others really are saying to you is that your are not following THEIR MANIFESTO...and that their way is the best way.
If you want to use a wet/dry GO FOR IT!!!!!!
What the others really are saying to you is that your are not following THEIR MANIFESTO...and that their way is the best way.
If you want to use a wet/dry GO FOR IT!!!!!!
No I think what the others are saying (from many, many years of experience BTW) is that a wet dry system takes more work. You don't think that Minh and Tom have had wet dry systems, I would be willing to say that they have used every type of system known. Too much work? With this stocking proposal I can assure you that there will be alot of work involving water changes.
Steve
Steve
I have a 38 gallon tank. What I want to do is convert it into a fish only saltwater tank. I had a reef setup before but gave up (to much work). So what I was thinking of doing this time is buying a Eheim 2229 wet\dry filter and using crush coral as a substrate. I dont want to make any DIY wet\dry and I really want to get rid of the sump theory here. Also I am not going to put a lot of fish in here maybe like 5 clowns and a yellow tang. I have a overflow box in the tank but I want to get rid of this too. Eventhough I really dont want to do the DIY stuff, what I was thinking of also doing was to take my 10g sump and put a bucket (with drilled holes in the bottom) full of bioballs. In that setup I would also use a fluval 404 in the sump. Any suggestions will really help me out. Thanx to everyone bye....
Live Rock, Deep Sand Bed (at least 4" of a fine sugar size sand) and an Aqua C Remora for a skimmer. NO wet/dry, no canister.
Don't put a Yellow tang in that small of a tank.
5 clowns err okay, no more than two of any one complex. IF they are all the same complex and/or species you will end up with a mated pair that will likely kill the other three.
Don't put a Yellow tang in that small of a tank.
5 clowns err okay, no more than two of any one complex. IF they are all the same complex and/or species you will end up with a mated pair that will likely kill the other three.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Darkreignn:
<strong>O..K.. I just want fish and coral skeletons in here. thanx</strong><hr></blockquote>
asking in the wrong forum then heh. Why subject fish to an unnatural environment? It's inhumane and completely unecessary.
<strong>O..K.. I just want fish and coral skeletons in here. thanx</strong><hr></blockquote>
asking in the wrong forum then heh. Why subject fish to an unnatural environment? It's inhumane and completely unecessary.
Geez....Listen I want a fish only tank and want to know how to set it up without live rock and sand ok. This is not the first time someone is trying to attempt this. Please dont suggest live rock and sand please. Thats why I wanna go with the wet\dry filter..
Basically exactly what I said above, it is simple and will make overall maintenance of the tank simple.
4"-6" of a fine grain sand like Southdown playsand, or Caribsea Aragamax.
About 30 pounds of live rock
Quality protein skimmer, i.e. an Aqua C Remora that hangs on the back of the tank will be more than sufficient. Stay away from crap like SeaClones.
Maybe I should have done a better job at explaining why instead of scolding.
You are setting up a habitat for your animals, dead coral skeletons are not a proper habitat, it is a stark sterile and unnatural environment. Yes many, including myself, have had tanks setup this way, but there are reasons why we no longer advocate it. Workload, long term fish health being the two most important issues.
Now I say wet/dry's are obsolete because if you use live rock to provide a natural environment, you have the added bonus of it being your biological filter. As long as it is relatively porous rock you do not need to pack the aquarium full of rock to have enough biofiltration. I have found that Fiji rock on average provides more than enough biofiltration at levels of about 0.5-1 pound per gallon. If you do manage to overload the rock I'd argue your tank is incredibly overstocked. I'm NOT saying that wet/dry's don't work, they do, but I am saying that they are a waste of your money. If liverock will handle all your bio-filtration needs and provide a natural habitat for your animals, why in God's name would you want to throw money at a filtration system that is redundant and unnecessary? Why not instead purchase a higher quality skimmer for instance?
I do think wet/dry's still have valid uses, for instance someone setting up a cold water system would want one because the rock (local New England granite) isn't really porous enough to handle a reasonable bioload. Certain cephalopods like cuttlefish excrete huge amounts of ammonia thus a tank for them would likely need some help in the bio arena, and a kriesel tank for jellyfish is not going to use LR as there is nothing but the fish in it.
I'm not saying one can't have a modicum of success with the wet/dry coral skeleton setup, I'm saying that it is too much work, unhealthy for the animals and a colossal waste of your money.
4"-6" of a fine grain sand like Southdown playsand, or Caribsea Aragamax.
About 30 pounds of live rock
Quality protein skimmer, i.e. an Aqua C Remora that hangs on the back of the tank will be more than sufficient. Stay away from crap like SeaClones.
Maybe I should have done a better job at explaining why instead of scolding.
You are setting up a habitat for your animals, dead coral skeletons are not a proper habitat, it is a stark sterile and unnatural environment. Yes many, including myself, have had tanks setup this way, but there are reasons why we no longer advocate it. Workload, long term fish health being the two most important issues.
Now I say wet/dry's are obsolete because if you use live rock to provide a natural environment, you have the added bonus of it being your biological filter. As long as it is relatively porous rock you do not need to pack the aquarium full of rock to have enough biofiltration. I have found that Fiji rock on average provides more than enough biofiltration at levels of about 0.5-1 pound per gallon. If you do manage to overload the rock I'd argue your tank is incredibly overstocked. I'm NOT saying that wet/dry's don't work, they do, but I am saying that they are a waste of your money. If liverock will handle all your bio-filtration needs and provide a natural habitat for your animals, why in God's name would you want to throw money at a filtration system that is redundant and unnecessary? Why not instead purchase a higher quality skimmer for instance?
I do think wet/dry's still have valid uses, for instance someone setting up a cold water system would want one because the rock (local New England granite) isn't really porous enough to handle a reasonable bioload. Certain cephalopods like cuttlefish excrete huge amounts of ammonia thus a tank for them would likely need some help in the bio arena, and a kriesel tank for jellyfish is not going to use LR as there is nothing but the fish in it.
I'm not saying one can't have a modicum of success with the wet/dry coral skeleton setup, I'm saying that it is too much work, unhealthy for the animals and a colossal waste of your money.
Okay then.... I first got into saltwater (1993)with a fish only tank. I used an undergravel filter on a 55+ oceanic (still have it) powered by 2 Penguin 550 Powerheads (still have them too). I also ran a Marineland 350 HOT Magnum with carbon/ chemi-pure mixture in it with a Poly sleeve over it. I would periodicly use the paper water polisher (in the magnum). I thought it was really easy to maintain and I was generally lazy.. I did have macro algae growth (of the hair type) that looked like my tufa rock had an afro. I later added an Emporer 400 bio wheel filter. I used this up until the impeller seized from sand and grit. I was using it on my reef tank up until 6 months ago. It was cool, it had various tube worms, white anenomies, and plenty of pods in it. good luck with the fish only tank.....
I am sure a lot of reefers on this board have both reef tanks and F/O tanks. I for one would like to keep triggers, lions, and eels eventually. later, Rich
I am sure a lot of reefers on this board have both reef tanks and F/O tanks. I for one would like to keep triggers, lions, and eels eventually. later, Rich
Ok This is what I think I am going to need to start off my F\O tank.
- kent marine 35gpd RO\DI unit
- AquaC EV120 with the magdrive 5 pump
- Caribsea Aragamax sand (how much do I need cause I cant figure that out thanx)
- 30 or so pounds of live rock
I already have a 38 gallon tank, stand, 2-96 watt power compacts, a 10 gallon sump, overflow box, 2 powerheads and an extra rio 2100. Any suggestions on how many pounds of sand I should get would really help thanx...
- kent marine 35gpd RO\DI unit
- AquaC EV120 with the magdrive 5 pump
- Caribsea Aragamax sand (how much do I need cause I cant figure that out thanx)
- 30 or so pounds of live rock
I already have a 38 gallon tank, stand, 2-96 watt power compacts, a 10 gallon sump, overflow box, 2 powerheads and an extra rio 2100. Any suggestions on how many pounds of sand I should get would really help thanx...
Since you live in New Jersey, you might be able to find 50# bags of Southdown sand at your local Home Depot. It's the same stuff as the CaribSea brand, but it comes in much bigger bags and costs around $3 per bag as opposed to $30. You would need between 2-4 bags of Southdown vs. 4 - 9 bags of CaribSea.
Mark
[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: MarkS ]</p>
Mark
[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: MarkS ]</p>
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