I have had my bubble tip for several months now. Got a tomoto clown and he loves it. the question is- when I first got it it was huge and now it does not open up much, but the clown still sleeps in it and even though it shrinks much in the daytime, it opens enough at night to let the clown sleep in it. I have 2 10000 K MH and 2 attinics. I has attached where it does not get much light. but, it is still living. just wondered why it never opens up much. I only feed DT's and frozen shrimp cubes and flake. Is that the problem? Should I feed it something else?
bubble tip anenome
- Thread starter reefdanger
- Start date
Next time you're at the grocer's get a scallop. I used to do this all the time, got strange looks from the staff... but they often toss it in for free. The single scallop is more than enough food for an E. Quad (most sized one's), you might even only want to feed it half. Freeze the other half, or feed it to the rest of your tank. It's a very oily fish food, so your skimmer will prolly go nuts, but nutritous, and I've not found an anemone that doesn't like it.
- Mac
- Mac
Feed your anemone on a regular basis, and give it a varied diet. I feed mine a mixture of silversides, krill, clam, and squid, once a week. Don't worry too much about it's present location, once it's well fed, it will probably move again.
It has probably reduced in size because it is not getting the nutrition it needs.
Mitch
It has probably reduced in size because it is not getting the nutrition it needs.
Mitch
Many people have posted stressing the urgency of feeding the E. Quad.. In my experience, reading and LFS advice feeding is completely unnecissary. I have not fed any of my E. Quad's in about a year and they have grown nicely and shown great health even after the few being sucked into a powerhead (nearly destroying it). The tomato clown I have, feeds it some of the brine I feed the tank on occasion, but very little. I have also been told that these anemones will do fine with 0 feeding, they are more dependent on lighting. I have never had a anemone recede, in fact the only time I see the anemone slime over and shrivel up is when they get an excess quantity of food. I heard that the main concern with E. Quad's is overfeeding!!
Dr. Gonzo: You are certainly the "odd man out" on this one...
(I'm just being silly)
It certainly can DO NO HARM to feed your anemone. I don't know where you got that idea. By all means feed your anemone!
Perhaps one reason that your anemone is doing so well (Gonzo) is that it is being indirectly fed by either your clownfish (if you have them) or the tank current.
Cheers
James Wiseman
It certainly can DO NO HARM to feed your anemone. I don't know where you got that idea. By all means feed your anemone!
Perhaps one reason that your anemone is doing so well (Gonzo) is that it is being indirectly fed by either your clownfish (if you have them) or the tank current.
Cheers
James Wiseman
I never stated that it was unhealthy to feed your bubble tip (although I have heard that overfeeding is ofter a problem) and yes mine do get fed indirectly from my clown. I was basically saying that feeding the B. tip is extremely over rated. They need strong lighting much more than they do constant feeding. Before I had my clown fish host my anemone never was fed directly and did fine. Even now, all my rose BTA gets is some leftover brine and is doing great. I hardly think they rely on a balanced diet, through all my experience at least.
I feed my Bubble tips whole shrimp with shell, whole small fish, assorted cubes of Formula frozen foods, whole clams, etc. They are fed every 2-3 days. When not fed that often my experience is that they will actually lose the normal feeding response and will not readily accept food placed directly on them and clowns or other fish steal it before the anemone gets the food. If fed frequently, in my experience, the anemones retain a very quick feeding response and immediately engulf any food placed on them so fish do not get the chance to steal it. They are large, about 5-6 inches across most of the time and somewhat larger at times, often but not always have "bubble-tips" and they cluster together near strong alternating current (provided by nearby outlet of Sea Swirl with 1500 GPH and a rotating maxijet 1200 in the area and another Maxijet 1200 not rotating but constantly blowing just above them)and right under a 250 watt MH (Blueline 10K+ on Blueline E-ballast plus VHO actinics--overall lighting is blue!). There are 8 clustered together with tentacles inbetween large stands of staghorn corals (they do not "sting" these corals)and the bases on the anemones are attached to rock crevices so when disturbed they vanish into the rock. One or two of the 8 will split every 2 weeks and the clones are removed as often as possible. The clones are small, about 3-4 inches across and are also fed every few days, but with several dozen of them some are missed due to them attaching themselves in inaccessible areas of my propagation vats. The ones that do not get food will either shrivel and/or bleach-normally they are a green color, some with purple tips. In my personal hands-on experience, the anemones need to be fed a varied diet and fed large amounts and often and they will thrive and reproduce. However, I respect those with differing experience and find it interesting.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dr.Gonzo:
<strong>I never stated that it was unhealthy to feed your bubble tip (although I have heard that overfeeding is ofter a problem) and yes mine do get fed indirectly from my clown. I was basically saying that feeding the B. tip is extremely over rated. They need strong lighting much more than they do constant feeding. Before I had my clown fish host my anemone never was fed directly and did fine. Even now, all my rose BTA gets is some leftover brine and is doing great. I hardly think they rely on a balanced diet, through all my experience at least.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, I have to disagree here. Strong light is important, but the results of strong light are sugars only (that's the end result of photosynthesis). Not many creatures (in the sea or otherwise) can create proteins out of sugar, and proteins are needed for general health and growth.
I base my opinion on readings and personal experience (see writings by Dr. Ron Shimek for more info on anemones) - and I generally find that what most LFSs have to say is outdated at best, and just plain wrong quite often, and, you can keep things alive in a LFS for several months with adequate lighting and no food, but that doesn't mean that the animal isn't starving to death none-the-less.
As Dr. Shimek has said about anemones, and Eric Borneman has said about corals - animals kept with no lighting, but fed, survive; animals kept with intense lighting but no food eventually die.
Kevin
<strong>I never stated that it was unhealthy to feed your bubble tip (although I have heard that overfeeding is ofter a problem) and yes mine do get fed indirectly from my clown. I was basically saying that feeding the B. tip is extremely over rated. They need strong lighting much more than they do constant feeding. Before I had my clown fish host my anemone never was fed directly and did fine. Even now, all my rose BTA gets is some leftover brine and is doing great. I hardly think they rely on a balanced diet, through all my experience at least.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, I have to disagree here. Strong light is important, but the results of strong light are sugars only (that's the end result of photosynthesis). Not many creatures (in the sea or otherwise) can create proteins out of sugar, and proteins are needed for general health and growth.
I base my opinion on readings and personal experience (see writings by Dr. Ron Shimek for more info on anemones) - and I generally find that what most LFSs have to say is outdated at best, and just plain wrong quite often, and, you can keep things alive in a LFS for several months with adequate lighting and no food, but that doesn't mean that the animal isn't starving to death none-the-less.
As Dr. Shimek has said about anemones, and Eric Borneman has said about corals - animals kept with no lighting, but fed, survive; animals kept with intense lighting but no food eventually die.
Kevin
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by leftovers:
<strong>Anemones recieve most nutrients via the water column like all other corals </strong><hr></blockquote>
In other words, they eat.
I think you'll find that most (if not all) tanks that have anemones "thriving" by "only" providing intense light feed "something" in their tank, and thereby feed their anemone.
Take two anemones of the same species. Put both in 20 gallon tanks with the same amount of live rock for filtration. Do regular water changes on both. Over one, put a 175 watt MH bulb (any kelvin you prefer) and don't feed. Put the other in a closet with no lighting at all and feed a meaty food twice a week. A year from now the tank with Metal Halide will not have an anemone (it will have died). The other tank will have an anemone, albeit a bleached one.
Anemones can and do live where no light reaches, but remove external food sources and the anemone will die. Think about it, photosynthesis produces only sugars. Production of nematocysts is extremely energy-intensive. If anemones could get all their nutrition from the water column by "absorbing nutrients," they would not have to invest in such an energy-intensive growth activity.
Ever see/feel an anemone that is going downhill? One of the first indicators that an anemone is "going south" is a lack of nematocyst production (not "sticky" to the touch). The anemone can no longer afford to participate in this energy-intensive activity. (actually, the first thing one usually notices is a lack of growth, or a shrinking, as was noted in this case. In order of importance, the first thing anemones put energy into is food capture, then growth, and finally reproduction)
But couldn't nematocysts exist soley for defense? Sure, but they're designed to pull in prey, not discharge and force a predator away.
I personally try and balance both light and feedings for my anemones, but to say light is far more important flies in the face of fact.
Kevin
[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Anemone ]</p>
<strong>Anemones recieve most nutrients via the water column like all other corals </strong><hr></blockquote>
In other words, they eat.
I think you'll find that most (if not all) tanks that have anemones "thriving" by "only" providing intense light feed "something" in their tank, and thereby feed their anemone.
Take two anemones of the same species. Put both in 20 gallon tanks with the same amount of live rock for filtration. Do regular water changes on both. Over one, put a 175 watt MH bulb (any kelvin you prefer) and don't feed. Put the other in a closet with no lighting at all and feed a meaty food twice a week. A year from now the tank with Metal Halide will not have an anemone (it will have died). The other tank will have an anemone, albeit a bleached one.
Anemones can and do live where no light reaches, but remove external food sources and the anemone will die. Think about it, photosynthesis produces only sugars. Production of nematocysts is extremely energy-intensive. If anemones could get all their nutrition from the water column by "absorbing nutrients," they would not have to invest in such an energy-intensive growth activity.
Ever see/feel an anemone that is going downhill? One of the first indicators that an anemone is "going south" is a lack of nematocyst production (not "sticky" to the touch). The anemone can no longer afford to participate in this energy-intensive activity. (actually, the first thing one usually notices is a lack of growth, or a shrinking, as was noted in this case. In order of importance, the first thing anemones put energy into is food capture, then growth, and finally reproduction)
But couldn't nematocysts exist soley for defense? Sure, but they're designed to pull in prey, not discharge and force a predator away.
I personally try and balance both light and feedings for my anemones, but to say light is far more important flies in the face of fact.
Kevin
[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Anemone ]</p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Absorbtion of nutrients from the water column is not eating anymore than me going out in to the sun to spur production of vitamin D or breathing to gain O2 and conviently enough N.
Anemones can absorb PO4/Nitrogen via resperation as well as via organic foods/zooplancton and the like. There is no evidece to refute/back up that they cannot live from the water column alone.
I never said anemones don't need food. But one also needs to keep in mind we are talking about Tropical anemones not deep ocean anemones. Tropical species are not found growing out of sunlight and until someone can prove otherwise require light and in many cases very strong light is one of the dominent requirements for the anemones health.
There are no studies that have shown that TROPICAL anemones need or don't require food either.
I'm not advocating that anyone stop feeding their tank or anemone but simply stating there is no evidence that tropical anemones will die or shrink or otherwise fail without the human aquarist feeding it food. The only evidence is that they require a source of nitrogen and phosphate and some complex protiens - And even that has recently come under some dispute I wish i could recall the articles unfortunately i can't.
As for you experiment its not only misleading at best but useless because it assumes that anemones don't use resparation to introduce needed nutrients to the anemone- an incorrect assumption. Your regular water changes and any PO4/N introduced can be used by the anemone. You also assume the anemone kept in the dark will be alive after a year - maybe- there is no proof only assumptions and yes the species does matter as they have evolved to live in various environments. A deep ocean anemone that normally lives in the dark may grow and multiply where as a tropical, light using anemone may waste a way and die regardless of how much food you stuff in it. Shimek's single test is hardly conclusive, plus our own ignorance of the care requirements could in and of itself cause the animal to die regardless of what we do.
Your point that "...to say light is far more important flies in the face of fact." not at all, there is NO scientific evidence that TROPICAL anemones need to be fed in order to survive. Do a search in Groups.google.com on feeding anemones and you will find a 200+ article thread where everyone -delbeek, harker and others weigh in on this very subject and discuss Shimeks assumptions and these very issues.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en &threadm=3b8ee9ad%40212.18.160.197&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:rec.aquaria.marine.reefs%2Bauthor
aulo%26hl%3Den%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D 29%26as_minm%3D8%26as_miny%3D2001%26as_maxd%3D6%26as_maxm%3D11%26as_maxy%3D2001%26rnum%3D5%26selm%3D3b8ee9ad%2540212.18.160.197
is the link.... its very very informative and usefull for this discussion
enjoy
[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: leftovers ]</p>
Absorbtion of nutrients from the water column is not eating anymore than me going out in to the sun to spur production of vitamin D or breathing to gain O2 and conviently enough N.
Anemones can absorb PO4/Nitrogen via resperation as well as via organic foods/zooplancton and the like. There is no evidece to refute/back up that they cannot live from the water column alone.
I never said anemones don't need food. But one also needs to keep in mind we are talking about Tropical anemones not deep ocean anemones. Tropical species are not found growing out of sunlight and until someone can prove otherwise require light and in many cases very strong light is one of the dominent requirements for the anemones health.
There are no studies that have shown that TROPICAL anemones need or don't require food either.
I'm not advocating that anyone stop feeding their tank or anemone but simply stating there is no evidence that tropical anemones will die or shrink or otherwise fail without the human aquarist feeding it food. The only evidence is that they require a source of nitrogen and phosphate and some complex protiens - And even that has recently come under some dispute I wish i could recall the articles unfortunately i can't.
As for you experiment its not only misleading at best but useless because it assumes that anemones don't use resparation to introduce needed nutrients to the anemone- an incorrect assumption. Your regular water changes and any PO4/N introduced can be used by the anemone. You also assume the anemone kept in the dark will be alive after a year - maybe- there is no proof only assumptions and yes the species does matter as they have evolved to live in various environments. A deep ocean anemone that normally lives in the dark may grow and multiply where as a tropical, light using anemone may waste a way and die regardless of how much food you stuff in it. Shimek's single test is hardly conclusive, plus our own ignorance of the care requirements could in and of itself cause the animal to die regardless of what we do.
Your point that "...to say light is far more important flies in the face of fact." not at all, there is NO scientific evidence that TROPICAL anemones need to be fed in order to survive. Do a search in Groups.google.com on feeding anemones and you will find a 200+ article thread where everyone -delbeek, harker and others weigh in on this very subject and discuss Shimeks assumptions and these very issues.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en &threadm=3b8ee9ad%40212.18.160.197&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:rec.aquaria.marine.reefs%2Bauthor
is the link.... its very very informative and usefull for this discussion
enjoy
[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: leftovers ]</p>
There is as yet NO scientific evidence that you need to directly feed anemones.
And while Shimek's post on RC says his will live in the dark with regular feeding thats a big stretch to thriving.
Another thing an anomone doesn't have to split or reproduce to be a healthy anemone same goes for fish. If anyone has the requirements for triggering fisson of E. Quad amd can reproduce them im all ears.
There are many many many cases of anemones not being fed by the owner or any clown fish (the feeding by clown fish is debatable in an of itself) and living thriving and reproducing - My rose E.Quad is a split from a nonfed nonclown hosted E. Quad. Charles Delbeek has not manually fed his anemones in years, I have on occasion in hopes it would split to no avail i just get a larger anemone.
Anemones recieve most nutrients via the water column like all other corals and if a clown is hosting its getting nutrients from the clown waste as well- Nitrogen and phosphates.
Supplemental human feeding is great but is not required. If you are feeding the TANK and not just the fish then you should have no real need to feed the anemone. If its ailing feedings MAY help provide direct nutrition that you are not providing the tank with.
And while Shimek's post on RC says his will live in the dark with regular feeding thats a big stretch to thriving.
Another thing an anomone doesn't have to split or reproduce to be a healthy anemone same goes for fish. If anyone has the requirements for triggering fisson of E. Quad amd can reproduce them im all ears.
There are many many many cases of anemones not being fed by the owner or any clown fish (the feeding by clown fish is debatable in an of itself) and living thriving and reproducing - My rose E.Quad is a split from a nonfed nonclown hosted E. Quad. Charles Delbeek has not manually fed his anemones in years, I have on occasion in hopes it would split to no avail i just get a larger anemone.
Anemones recieve most nutrients via the water column like all other corals and if a clown is hosting its getting nutrients from the clown waste as well- Nitrogen and phosphates.
Supplemental human feeding is great but is not required. If you are feeding the TANK and not just the fish then you should have no real need to feed the anemone. If its ailing feedings MAY help provide direct nutrition that you are not providing the tank with.
How long have I kept BTA's? About a year and a half and I started with one. I had very low lighting at the time (2 NO 30watt bulbs over a 55 gallon) I found the anemone continuosly wandered and started to recede. I fed this anemone all the time because I thought It wasnt getting enough food. Well It still remained wandering into danger and showed signs of unhealth so I continued my readings on BTA's. I read time after time about the need for a strong lighting supply, so I added 100 watts of PC's the anemone started showing signs of contempt. It would stay in one location and started to grow at an increasing rate, until I lost light for a day or two. I found It had moved as soon as the lights were out unexpectedly. Well I added some VHO's and now I have no problem with the BTA moving or receding. I even had a rose BTA that wandered into a powerhead because of an unexpected lighting outage and nearly chopped 75% of its entire tips. It bleached pink and grew back everything it lost at an astonishing rate, then got its deeper red back and grew like mad. I never directly fed the anemone since I upgraded lighting. Whatever in the hell the anemone was eating it sure was not fed a gourmet Brine/Squid/shrimp meal twice a day. To all the comments:
Through my experience - YES lighting is much more crucial then direct feeding. I have not target fed my anemone in about a year now.
NO - I do not advise people to stop feeding anemones. I am sure the nutrients from food are good, but the light is much more important to long term success.
YES - I do think my experience is considered long term success since I have had 0% recession in a year and some very rapid growth(AFTER LIGHT UPGRADES).
"place an anemone in a closet with 0 lighting" YOUR NUTS! please dont waste an anemones life to prove a point. Personally I would have 1000 bucks on the halide tank! At least my anemones were never happy with low lighting and good feeding, cant imagine no lighting.
Leftovers has posted some great points about tropical vs. deepwater anemones. And pointed out some great info that is similar to what I have gathered from hours of searching / reading on this subject.
Just my experience and research.
Through my experience - YES lighting is much more crucial then direct feeding. I have not target fed my anemone in about a year now.
NO - I do not advise people to stop feeding anemones. I am sure the nutrients from food are good, but the light is much more important to long term success.
YES - I do think my experience is considered long term success since I have had 0% recession in a year and some very rapid growth(AFTER LIGHT UPGRADES).
"place an anemone in a closet with 0 lighting" YOUR NUTS! please dont waste an anemones life to prove a point. Personally I would have 1000 bucks on the halide tank! At least my anemones were never happy with low lighting and good feeding, cant imagine no lighting.
Leftovers has posted some great points about tropical vs. deepwater anemones. And pointed out some great info that is similar to what I have gathered from hours of searching / reading on this subject.
Just my experience and research.
Doc -
I wasn't seriously suggesting anyone sacrifice an anemone, just a hypothetical (showing why there are no studies showing the absolute need, or lack thereof, for light or supplemental feeding of anemones)
And I'm not really suggesting that no lighting is a good idea, just that high levels of lighting is not the be-all, end-all. There are quite a few hobbyists that can keep host anemones under normal output fluorescent bulbs with regular feedings. Many authors have noted the presence of host (ie, tropical) anemones in pretty deep water (at least pretty deep light penetrance-wise, 100+ft - I know light penetrates this deeply, but not anywhere near the level of VHO, PC or MH bulbs 18" beneath the surface of an aquarium). A quick search last night and I found reference in Delbeek and Sprung's TRA to deeper-water host anemones and even the E. quad is known to have a different growth form in deper water (larger, non-cloning variety) according to both D & S and Wilkerson.
D & S also stress the overwhelming importance of high-level lighting, but in our quickly-evolving hobby, information that was put in print 6-10 years ago is not necessarily considered the "best" any longer (something LFSs don't seem willing to recognize, for the most part).
There are corals that recieve the majority of their nutrients via absorption - xenia for one - and they have significantly reduced (or non-existant) mouths and no nematocysts. Tropical anemones have both mouths and adhesive nematocysts - in other words, feeding apparatuses - that take quite a bit of energy to maintain. My argument is that these apparatuses are not redundant and should not be ignored by the hobbyist (whether by target feeding or feeding meaty foods to other occupants of the tank).
And, as I also said, I both feed (only occasionally target feed though) and use strong lighting for my anemones. Like Doc, I've found VHO to be very productive (30+ rose bulb clones and counting in 6+ years).
Very good discussion!
Kevin
I wasn't seriously suggesting anyone sacrifice an anemone, just a hypothetical (showing why there are no studies showing the absolute need, or lack thereof, for light or supplemental feeding of anemones)
And I'm not really suggesting that no lighting is a good idea, just that high levels of lighting is not the be-all, end-all. There are quite a few hobbyists that can keep host anemones under normal output fluorescent bulbs with regular feedings. Many authors have noted the presence of host (ie, tropical) anemones in pretty deep water (at least pretty deep light penetrance-wise, 100+ft - I know light penetrates this deeply, but not anywhere near the level of VHO, PC or MH bulbs 18" beneath the surface of an aquarium). A quick search last night and I found reference in Delbeek and Sprung's TRA to deeper-water host anemones and even the E. quad is known to have a different growth form in deper water (larger, non-cloning variety) according to both D & S and Wilkerson.
D & S also stress the overwhelming importance of high-level lighting, but in our quickly-evolving hobby, information that was put in print 6-10 years ago is not necessarily considered the "best" any longer (something LFSs don't seem willing to recognize, for the most part).
There are corals that recieve the majority of their nutrients via absorption - xenia for one - and they have significantly reduced (or non-existant) mouths and no nematocysts. Tropical anemones have both mouths and adhesive nematocysts - in other words, feeding apparatuses - that take quite a bit of energy to maintain. My argument is that these apparatuses are not redundant and should not be ignored by the hobbyist (whether by target feeding or feeding meaty foods to other occupants of the tank).
And, as I also said, I both feed (only occasionally target feed though) and use strong lighting for my anemones. Like Doc, I've found VHO to be very productive (30+ rose bulb clones and counting in 6+ years).
Very good discussion!
Kevin
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