I don't know about all this

[Mabu]

If you want to get into this hobby and do it right, you have to be prepared to follow through on your committment. You can't pay someone else to do it; you can't assume that you'll deal with things later... if you want to do it right, you have to be prepared for it. If you have any doubts, then don't do it.. period.

What? You mean a reef tank isn't like a piece of furniture you set up and then simply dust now and then?

Everyone who claimed I was being too hard should apologize. We all know this is a hobby that carries responsibility with it. I do not think it's out of line whatsoever to question (or even discourage) someone's interest in the hobby when they want to jump from 0-to-60 the first time they step in the car.... The way I feel, is I'm doing everyone a favor, you, the soon-to-be-dead creatures, your carpet & flooring, and the aquarists who have a love for this hobby, by saying that this is NOT AN EASY HOBBY (we know better - it's super easy and it's very rewarding IF you have the right attitude) but if you're looking for something "easy" then you don't have the right attitude so don't try this! It's HARD! Get the point?

This is why I said START SMALL. And I still believe it.

It is true that the larger the tank, the better off, but most of the people saying that are immediately assuming that you'll love this hobby and be committed. I do not take that for granted, so I think it's best to start small and get a taste for what's involved before you invest a ton of money, and I think it's a smarter move. If you had run other SW tanks before, or even any tanks recently, then I might agree: go large, but you haven't, so I stand by my recommendation. Test yourself on something modest to even see if you are the type of person who will be motivated to perservere in this hobby before investing anything substantive.

 

[esmithiii]

Mabu,

This hobby is too closed to newcomers as it is. As for a large tank or a small one- a large one, even though more expensive is definitely less work than a small one, and a large one has a greater chance of success.

Its like this: If I buy a chevette to see if I like driving, I probably won't! If I buy a corvette, I probably will!

I agree that the committment level should be there at the beginning, but we make it out to be harder than it really is. Lynn will have a much easier time than I ever did because she started asking questions here, in addition to the LFS. It took me 8 months just to find this board!

Ernie

 

[Mabu]

To use an anology that Lynn may be able to relate to: If you think "birds are cool" and decide you want a bird, do you go out and buy a Blue and Gold Macaw or a Cockatoo as your first? Anybody who knows anything about birds will tell you, get a parakeet, get a cockatiel FIRST. Don't spend the money on an expensive, high-maintenance pet that you can end up traumatizing or killing because you may not be familiar with the responsibilities. That's all I'm saying... start small if you haven't done this before.

 

[chris_h]

I agree with start small. You will probaly not do everything right on your first tank and once you learn what you have done wrong you will be happy that you did not spend too much money. Once you have learned a lot from a small tank, you will be excited to apply this knowledge to a larger and more succesful reef.

 

[chris_h]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mabu:
<strong>To use an anology that Lynn may be able to relate to: If you think "birds are cool" and decide you want a bird, do you go out and buy a Blue and Gold Macaw or a Cockatoo as your first? Anybody who knows anything about birds will tell you, get a parakeet, get a cockatiel FIRST. Don't spend the money on an expensive, high-maintenance pet that you can end up traumatizing or killing because you may not be familiar with the responsibilities. That's all I'm saying... start small if you haven't done this before.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think I have a better analogy. Consider an architect. Should he build a house before he builds a skyscraper.

 

[Mabu]

I'm just putting myself in her shoes too. I did a bunch of research before I set my first, second and third tanks. Even then, I'm sure most of us would agree if we could do it all over again, many would choose radically different setups based on what we've learned. It would be a shame to spend the majority of money you've budgeted on one huge tank before you really know more about things.

With what I know now, I'd go with a different setup than what I would have six months ago. And I believe about every six months many of us think, "Hmmm, I wouldn't have put that creature in this tank, or maybe I should have used this lighting?" You can maximize your enjoyment of this hobby if you don't commit too much initially to one setup before you learn more about the science as well as your own desires in what you want out of tank.

A prime example is the overwhelming number of people who said, "Don't get the metal stand." How were you supposed to know? If you had simply gone with the LFS recommendations, you may have had serious problems later. If you did this with a 55g, then it would have been a lot easier to replace - compared with a 180+.

I hope I'm not discouraging anyone in this hobby. I think it's wonderful. But after all I've learned, I feel a sense of responsibility to try to "screen" newfound enthusiasts to make sure they know what they're getting into. I don't know about anyone else, but it pains me to walk into a LFS and see the same piece of coral in their showcase tank, slowly dying, and they won't sell it to anyone. It's so sad.

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Mabu ]</p>

 

[esmithiii]

That is not a good analogy. A macaw or a cockatoo is much harder to care for than a cockatiel. A larger tank, if set up correctly is easier than a small one.

Lynn,

I travel a lot, and my wife takes care of the tank during the week. It is not that big of a deal, but plan on spending more time at first until you get the hang of it. I have a tank sitter that feeds my fish once a day when my wife and I go out of town together, but I could probably have someone come over every other day or less.

Here is a breakdown of my maintenance time for my 180G:

Daily- Feed twice daily, 5 min/day
Twice Weekly- Add water to top off- 4 min/week
Weekly- Mix kalkwasser, scrub glass, 10 min
Monthly- clean skimmer, test water parameters, 20% water change- 90 minutes

This adds up to about 5 hours total/month. I am being very conservative here. In reality it is much less than this.

I did not include "fiddling time" which I don't count as maintenance. This is moving things around, etc. I do this for fun, but it isn't necessary.

All in all, the tank is easier (less time) to care for than the easiest of dogs, but more work than a cat (unless the cat is indoors only... litterboxes are no fun !)

Ernie

 

[64Ivy]

Actually, I'm on vacation right now...well, technically I'M not (I have a 3 year old

) but I'm in LA which is about three thousand miles from my reeftank and I'll be here ten days. You think I'm worried? Heck, yeah. But before I left, I made sure everything was in working order, the tanks parameters were stable, I didn't add anything; animal, vegetable, or chemical to the water ( out of the ordinary ) and most important of all, I left the tank in the hands of someone trustworthy and with explict WRITTEN instructions and my cell number should there be an emergency.

The point is, you've gotta live too and as long as you've done your homework in both establishing as healthy an enviornment as you can AND finding a caretaker that takes the hobby as seriously as you, you've done all you can. Besides, I believe the number #1 cause of major tank problems is OI (owner interference) and you can't do that on vacation, can you?

 

[Mouse]

On the bottom of my reef lies my wallet and my brain.

if your after a "hobby" go get a flower press.

 

[reefhope]

Of course there is always a change of experiencing an algea bloom....then again I'm sure the risk can be reduced by correctly setting up and establishing the tank.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is topoff. If you do not have a sump it is very difficult to have an inconspicuous auto topoff container. It is tough to get away for a weekend, let along an entire vacation, if you don't have some type of auto topoff.

A reef tank is a hands-on hobby. I agree with most here in that if the tank is originally setup intelligently and the system is balanced there is not much maintenance involved. It is when something goes awry that large amounts of your time may be sacrificed. It is not a hobby you can "put on the shelf" for a few months to take a break.

 

[Mabu]

> That is not a good analogy. A macaw or a cockatoo
> is much harder to care for than a cockatiel. A
> larger tank, if set up correctly is easier than a
> small one.

I beg to differ. It's a good analogy. I was not using the analogy to illustrate the amount of maintenance involved - I was using the anology to illustrate the importance of starting small to see if one even has the proper interest in the hobby to perservere.

A lot of people think Parrots are neat, but have no idea of the responsibility. If you got them a lower-maintenance bird, they would get a taste of what's involved and be able to more intelligently decide if they want to move up to the next level, the financial and other damages would be minimized. In the case of reefkeeping, she'd need an extra tank anyway to do it right so nothing would be lost.

I also argue whether a bigger tank is "lower maintenance." It certainly would require a lot more time and money to initially set up than a smaller tank. I think you essentially have to do the same amount of work on a tank of any size... the size issue tends however, to amplify/reduce the severety of problems, and for that reason, the bigger tank can be easier to deal with in situations where say, the readings are off, but you still have to go through the same process of testing and maintenance - you just may have more lattitude with a larger tank, but again, that's not the point I was making.

I cannot believe anyone would recommend that someone set up a 180 gallon reef tank as their very first saltwater aquarium. Well, it only makes sense if you live next door to them and you figure you'll get the tank in 8 months at a killer price...

 

[Lynn]

This is definitely a controversial subject. I do agree with Magu on the analogy with the parrots..in most cases. But in some cases it all depends on the individual and his experiences with animals and his knowledge of birds prior to obtaining his first. I started out with a large parrot as my first and I'm so very happy that I did. Had I not I would have had the small and probably never really been quite satisfied with it. Since a person only has so much time it was better for me to have 2 large ..rather then having to split the time with a smaller one as well. But to the normal Joe Blow I would of course recommend that he start with a smaller type especially if lacked the knowledge needed.
This is a hard decision for me as I do not have the time nor the room for 2 tanks. My husband also has a influence on this as well...and wants the BIG one!! (you know...guys and they toys)
Anyways when I ask a question I appreciate a honest answer. The most succesful things in life usually come about from properly pre-formed ideas.
Thanks guys.

 

[Anonymous]

Lynn,

I think you can travel and enjoy a reef hobby as well. People set up all different types of reefs and if you want one that you can leave for several weeks at a time, you can. When I started in this hobby, it was with the constraint that I would be able to leave my tank for at least 3 weeks at a time without skilled help to watch and feed it.
My system was set up with travel in mind. The last vacation we took started on Aug 22nd and we returned on Oct. 9th. The only thing done for that period was my son stopped in to refill my feeder twice.
If you intend to set up a tank with minimum maintenance, you will have to forgo certain corals and fish that require hand or spot feeding. Other than that you can do anything you want. I have LPS, SPS and soft corals. A few fish and a BTA. If you want more info, try my web site or e-mail me. Good luck

 

[esmithiii]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

I cannot believe anyone would recommend that someone set up a 180 gallon reef tank as their very first saltwater aquarium.

Tullock suggests that you start with the biggest aquarium you can afford (in Natural Reef Aquariums.) The logic is that you don't buy things twice. I have so much crap left over from my 55 that I could start my own LFS selling used equipment!

As far as the maintenance is concerned, we will have to agree to disagree. Ask anyone with a nano tank how often they check salinity and test other parameters. I think anyone will tell you that it takes much shorter period of time for things to get out of whack on a smaller tank. The risk with a larger tank is that the initial investment would be wasted if the person decides to get out of the hobby in a year or so. I think the risk is lower with a large tank. I don't think that this is a big issue for Lynn.

I wish I had started with my 180. My wife would never have let me, though.

E