can you believe this???

[Anonymous]

i recently learned that one of my LFS (the owner) prides himself on the fact that he only does water changes once a year!

he feels that his "methods" allow him to do such and that he never has a problem with his water quality. even though, on occasion, i've noticed several sick fishes. what about the fact that he's constantly sticking his dirty hands in the tanks after he's handled money, scratched his head, ate his lunch, pet his dog (who stays in the store)...

needless to say, i don't think i'll be buying livestock from him (i haven't yet, only equipment). sheesh.

[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: coralshrimp ]</p>

 

[Anonymous]

Does he count the water he has to replace from selling fish??

When I had my little 55 gallon xenia farm, I never did a formal water change, because I took out and replaced about a gallon a week from bagging it up and taking it to various fish stores.

 

[Anonymous]

hi.
Depends on how much live stocks he sells, he is actually constantly doing water change but not knowing it. Bad water out to customer, and as water level dropped, he add fresh salt water to it.

So actually, he is not as carefree as he thinks. So to encourage him to do more water change, I suggest you to buy lots of livestocks from him instead

 

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mulberry:
<strong>Does he count the water he has to replace from selling fish??</strong><hr></blockquote>

good point. he would have to be adding fresh batches then. but i still don't see how that would keep his systems healthy. when i was first setting up my tank, i was in his store nearly everyday for 2 weeks (kept forgetting stuff). many of the same fish were still there. the corals never looked healthy either.

 

[Anonymous]

also, it's a very tiny store. not very busy. but he's been around for 30 years so i suppose he's doing something right.

i still wouldn't trust the fish though. especially when i see a sick one in a cube adjacent to a healthy one. they are sharing the same water, aren't they?

i do understand how if he's selling alot of fish and always replacing his water then maybe it's not as bad as i think. but like i said, i've seen many of the same fish there for awhile. and he doesn't get in new guys every week, he told me this.

 

[Anonymous]

hi.
Just because someone is doing water change regularly does not mean that everything will be healthy. Just because someone don't do water change cause unhealthy livestock. I, for example, on several occusions, go more than 9 months before water change. There is no formula for success, and no action that will leads to certain doom. Well, almost none.

 

[Anonymous]

If the tanks are very lightly stocked, he may not need to do many changes because of that as well.

 

[M.E.Milz]

Should I confess???? Ok, I have done maybe 3-4 20% water changes in my 200g heavily stocked reef tank over the past 20 months, the last one being sometime last fall (or maybe it was in the summer). But please do not misunderstand me, I am Not advocating Not doing water changes. To the contrary, I would prefer to do them more regularly. However, my sps have grown to the waterline, and I cannot do a water change without exposing these corals to the air for at least 30 min. After I move in a few months, I will move everthing much lower in the water column.

 

[Anonymous]

well then, i stand corrected.

 

[EmilyB]

I firmly believe in water changes, at least for me. At least every two weeks in the reef. However, I do have a very large bioload...and do not opt for supplements.

And I pet the dogs and scratch my head a lot

However, handling money is something I only dream about

 

[BiGBOi]

What is wrong with SPS coming out of the water for 30 minutes for a water change? What do you think happens in low tide? SPS are out of the water for a lot longer than 30 minutes. Also, some exporters actually ship SPS dry and only wrapped in moist leaves or paper from the reefs. SPS have adapted to being out of the water for periods of time like that. They will mucus to prevent damage.

 

[danmhippo]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by coralshrimp:
<strong>Topic: Can you believe this?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sure I can.......I used to be one of the few advocating to it, heavy skimming, light feeding, heavy nutrient export, kalk, and occasional GAC. It's not impossible, but just are more proned to failure (if something went wrong that is).

I no longer practice that about 1/2 year ago when I decided to go skimmerless. Without skimmer, I have to make water changes.

One argument of water changes vs. none is that there are more ions and compounds that we normally do not account for (not routinely measured, or no commercial test kits available to test it) in the seawater. Some of these may deplete, or accumulate to a dangerous level vice versa, when water changes are long due.

 

[M.E.Milz]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

What is wrong with SPS coming out of the water for 30 minutes for a water change? . . . They will mucus to prevent damage.

Well, the amount of mucus that is generated by my bali staghorns as a result of being exposed to air is huge, and ends up on every other coral in the tank. My tank looks like someone dumped a bottle of syrup in ti. This can't be good for the other corals, can it?

In addition, I lost at least one of my sps colonies (a red brid's nest) after exposing it to air. Maybe it had nothing to do with it, but I can't be sure.

 

[Anonymous]

As you have heard- regular water changes are not an absolute prerequisite for a healthy reef, and fish can be sick for a lot of reasons- but in a LFS they are most likely to be due to cyanide, stress of shipping and collection, and malnutrition. The one thing you don't have to worry about is bacteria from dogs, money etc. Bacteria, and you may know, is required for a reef system to survive.

At this very moment, there are are a greater number of bacteria living in your mouth than people have ever lived on the planet. Feels weird, eh?

 

[Anonymous]

On the other hand, staying in business for a long time doesn't mean the LFS knows what its doing. There is a store near me that I first went into over 30 years ago (I'm 46). Last month I decided to stop in while I was doing some errands with my daughter. What did we see but a half filled aquarium with a large rock in the middle sticking out of the water. Balanced on top of the rock was a stone-dead land tortoise, its head and legs hanging down.... We didn't look back.

 

[Anonymous]

learn something new every day, i say!

i had always believed that water changes were necessary and beneficial. i do understand about bacteria, dan - believe it or not, i have one degree in biology and am still going...

i just think it's "icky" (for lack of a better word) to have dog dirties (or any kind of dirt) in the tank water. we have a big black lab/dane and i cringe anytime i see one of his hairs floating in the water (thanks to my 2 year old son). maybe i'm just a neat freak. i *never* stick my hands in my tank without doing the 3 minute scrub first - you never know where my hands have been.

 

[esmithiii]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

had always believed that water changes were necessary and beneficial.

This is a hotly debated topic. I personally believe in them, and follow a schedule.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

i *never* stick my hands in my tank without doing the 3 minute scrub first

Personally I think the thing to be careful with is mainly chemicals, soap included. Soap residue can cause your skimmer to not work for a bit, and can irritate certain corals. One thing for sure is to wash with soap AFTER handling anything in the tank. If you have zooanthids, parazoanthus, or similar make sure you don't have any open wounds or scrapes when handling them. As a general rule of thumb, wear gloves if you have any open wound, cut or scrape.

Ernie

 

[Anonymous]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by esmithiii:
<strong>

Personally I think the thing to be careful with is mainly chemicals, soap included.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

ernie, that's why i do my "3 minute scrub" as i spend most of the time rinsing off the soap!

 

[esmithiii]

Many of my corals get exposed to air every time I do a water change. I do water changes monthly, sometimes I go a bit longer.

There are many successful hobbiests that do not do regular water changes.

E