Slamming Experts and Hobbyist
- Thread starter Boss_512
- Start date
both of you sound just like the people I give tickets to everyday. Then they try to explain that they werent doing just what I caught them doing in the first place. So I chalk it up to the two of you typing just to occupy yourselves, or just to try and sound profound in some way. I have heard a lot of people talk just to hear themselves talk. Sound familiar to the two of you.
Care is needed to avoid confusing opinion with fact.
Some people's views are wrong. Some people's views fit within a window of what some would consider equivalently correct.
If someone is categorically wrong then you should tell them explicitly. However, if it transpires that you've misunderstood the situation then you'll need to back off with tail between legs - everyone makes mistakes.
For example, adding 100 grams of copper sulphate to a reef tank is not a good way to maintian pH. That belief does not fall within the range of acceptable opinion.
Some people's views are wrong. Some people's views fit within a window of what some would consider equivalently correct.
If someone is categorically wrong then you should tell them explicitly. However, if it transpires that you've misunderstood the situation then you'll need to back off with tail between legs - everyone makes mistakes.
For example, adding 100 grams of copper sulphate to a reef tank is not a good way to maintian pH. That belief does not fall within the range of acceptable opinion.
Cause and effect are the main paramiters by which we sail our reefs through the ocien of catastropy.
Some people may be "correct" in their directional changes to stear past or deal with catastrophy, but lack the expirience to deal with possible unforseen consiquences of that change.
I.E. out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Others who are also "correct" but possibly more "correct" because ultimately they have allready steered round the hazard faced the conciquiences and put forward their observations with allowances for hindsight, may feel that the first individual allthough "correct" is infact "incorrect" due to the deeper understanding that they have.
In this instance i would go with the guy who was ultimately correct, and i would have to say that the other guy allthough not entirely incorrect...... ahhhhhh never mind. you can see what im getting at though?
Personally i wouldn't put bulkheads in the main tank. If a party is only as strong as its weakest member, then in the case of my reef id rather that member was a seam to the tank than a bulkhead or plumbing joint. But that doesn't mean its wrong to do it. I would just advise against it. Nobody here represents the law, after all it is a forum, not a library.
Some people may be "correct" in their directional changes to stear past or deal with catastrophy, but lack the expirience to deal with possible unforseen consiquences of that change.
I.E. out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Others who are also "correct" but possibly more "correct" because ultimately they have allready steered round the hazard faced the conciquiences and put forward their observations with allowances for hindsight, may feel that the first individual allthough "correct" is infact "incorrect" due to the deeper understanding that they have.
In this instance i would go with the guy who was ultimately correct, and i would have to say that the other guy allthough not entirely incorrect...... ahhhhhh never mind. you can see what im getting at though?
Personally i wouldn't put bulkheads in the main tank. If a party is only as strong as its weakest member, then in the case of my reef id rather that member was a seam to the tank than a bulkhead or plumbing joint. But that doesn't mean its wrong to do it. I would just advise against it. Nobody here represents the law, after all it is a forum, not a library.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
My fish don't know that. I have been trying to house-train them for years.
Healthy debate when reigned in by respect is quite healthy, IMO. one of my closest friends and I debate all the time. It is one way to learn from each other.
Personally I will never take advice or give credence from someone who isn't willing to defend his/her position. If you can't explain why you believe something, why should I believe you? If you don't believe in something enough to state your peace and defend your position then why should I believe you?
I also want to echo something that Mitch said and that is if you have so much "experience" with such a diverse set of situations, why only 47 posts in 2 years? Why after 47 posts do you feel morally obliged to speak up and call us to repentance?
Just my OPINION folks. I am not "Slamming" anyone.
My fish don't know that. I have been trying to house-train them for years.
Healthy debate when reigned in by respect is quite healthy, IMO. one of my closest friends and I debate all the time. It is one way to learn from each other.
Personally I will never take advice or give credence from someone who isn't willing to defend his/her position. If you can't explain why you believe something, why should I believe you? If you don't believe in something enough to state your peace and defend your position then why should I believe you?
I also want to echo something that Mitch said and that is if you have so much "experience" with such a diverse set of situations, why only 47 posts in 2 years? Why after 47 posts do you feel morally obliged to speak up and call us to repentance?
Just my OPINION folks. I am not "Slamming" anyone.
E-
Although I agree with your post (mostly), I don't think the number of posts has anything to do with:
1) how much you contribute to the general discussion here
2) how much you know about the hobby
3) how much you have experienced in the hobby
Point - I have a couple hundred posts and have been in the hobby for about 10 years. I don't consider myself an expert but I will give advice on topics I have experience with. Why don't I have 1000's of posts? I do not have time to read this board all the time or respond to every post that I could. That's just life. I am grateful to the people here who *do* have the time.
Posting "nice tank" or ranting about sex in the Sump is not contributing to the hobby or expanding anybody's knowledge about reefkeeping. So {squat} generally doesn't mean {squat} to me.
But that's just *my* opinion.
Finally, I am not knocking the {squat} folks, so don't start a flame war here.
There's my 0.02 on that matter.
-T
Although I agree with your post (mostly), I don't think the number of posts has anything to do with:
1) how much you contribute to the general discussion here
2) how much you know about the hobby
3) how much you have experienced in the hobby
Point - I have a couple hundred posts and have been in the hobby for about 10 years. I don't consider myself an expert but I will give advice on topics I have experience with. Why don't I have 1000's of posts? I do not have time to read this board all the time or respond to every post that I could. That's just life. I am grateful to the people here who *do* have the time.
Posting "nice tank" or ranting about sex in the Sump is not contributing to the hobby or expanding anybody's knowledge about reefkeeping. So {squat} generally doesn't mean {squat} to me.
But that's just *my* opinion.
Finally, I am not knocking the {squat} folks, so don't start a flame war here.
There's my 0.02 on that matter.
-T
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TazzBear:
<strong>I have been reading this board and others for a LONG time. Years people. And what prompted this little note is Slamming other reefers or the Experts. I read and read all the time how someone says this person or that person does not know what they are talking about. And frankly all you are doing is confusing everyone. EVERYONE has an opinion and believe it or not, they know what they are talking about (from their experience)! When you say "They don't know what they are talking about" you are belittling our entire industry. Sure someone might not keep tanks the way you do or they may have better or worse luck trying the same thing you do. But I have been keeping a reef tank for almost 15 years and each system I get involved with is different. Even in my own home. One filtering system, multiple lights and I can't get some things to grow in one tank but they grow like crazy in another. I also have a bunch of reefers that come to my house DAILY to buy stuff from me and they all have different set ups. I don't think I would set up some of my systems the way they do but I sure as heck don't tell them they are wrong or that so and so is stupid for doing it that way. Remember that diversity and different techniques have brought our reef keeping abilities a LONG way. And if not for trying new things I would not be able to grow and sell corals. So next time you want to bad mouth a reef keeper all you are doing is SLAMMING someone and belittling our hobby and fellow hobbyist. It does not look good for any of us. Don't sh_t where you eat. Every animal knows that. AS for LFS, well, they usually don't have Expert Reefers so I can understand the general consensus there, but thank goodness for boards like this one and others. Maybe it is time for a "Dummies for Reefers" or "Dummies for Saltwater Aquariums".
</strong><hr></blockquote>
TROLL ALERT
[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: uptown112 ]</p>
<strong>I have been reading this board and others for a LONG time. Years people. And what prompted this little note is Slamming other reefers or the Experts. I read and read all the time how someone says this person or that person does not know what they are talking about. And frankly all you are doing is confusing everyone. EVERYONE has an opinion and believe it or not, they know what they are talking about (from their experience)! When you say "They don't know what they are talking about" you are belittling our entire industry. Sure someone might not keep tanks the way you do or they may have better or worse luck trying the same thing you do. But I have been keeping a reef tank for almost 15 years and each system I get involved with is different. Even in my own home. One filtering system, multiple lights and I can't get some things to grow in one tank but they grow like crazy in another. I also have a bunch of reefers that come to my house DAILY to buy stuff from me and they all have different set ups. I don't think I would set up some of my systems the way they do but I sure as heck don't tell them they are wrong or that so and so is stupid for doing it that way. Remember that diversity and different techniques have brought our reef keeping abilities a LONG way. And if not for trying new things I would not be able to grow and sell corals. So next time you want to bad mouth a reef keeper all you are doing is SLAMMING someone and belittling our hobby and fellow hobbyist. It does not look good for any of us. Don't sh_t where you eat. Every animal knows that. AS for LFS, well, they usually don't have Expert Reefers so I can understand the general consensus there, but thank goodness for boards like this one and others. Maybe it is time for a "Dummies for Reefers" or "Dummies for Saltwater Aquariums".
TROLL ALERT
[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: uptown112 ]</p>
Posted by pez:
Posting "nice tank"
Actually thats just common courtesy. If a person has spent the time to research and set up a reef tank and then posts pictures of their tank, the least I can do is acknowledge their efforts. Does it further the hobby, I think so. By showing that person that you appreciate their efforts they will be inclined to continue on this same path and hopefully educate others they come in contact with.
Steve
Posting "nice tank"
Actually thats just common courtesy. If a person has spent the time to research and set up a reef tank and then posts pictures of their tank, the least I can do is acknowledge their efforts. Does it further the hobby, I think so. By showing that person that you appreciate their efforts they will be inclined to continue on this same path and hopefully educate others they come in contact with.
Steve
I have been reading this board and others for a LONG time. Years people. And what prompted this little note is Slamming other reefers or the Experts. I read and read all the time how someone says this person or that person does not know what they are talking about. And frankly all you are doing is confusing everyone. EVERYONE has an opinion and believe it or not, they know what they are talking about (from their experience)! When you say "They don't know what they are talking about" you are belittling our entire industry. Sure someone might not keep tanks the way you do or they may have better or worse luck trying the same thing you do. But I have been keeping a reef tank for almost 15 years and each system I get involved with is different. Even in my own home. One filtering system, multiple lights and I can't get some things to grow in one tank but they grow like crazy in another. I also have a bunch of reefers that come to my house DAILY to buy stuff from me and they all have different set ups. I don't think I would set up some of my systems the way they do but I sure as heck don't tell them they are wrong or that so and so is stupid for doing it that way. Remember that diversity and different techniques have brought our reef keeping abilities a LONG way. And if not for trying new things I would not be able to grow and sell corals. So next time you want to bad mouth a reef keeper all you are doing is SLAMMING someone and belittling our hobby and fellow hobbyist. It does not look good for any of us. Don't sh_t where you eat. Every animal knows that. AS for LFS, well, they usually don't have Expert Reefers so I can understand the general consensus there, but thank goodness for boards like this one and others. Maybe it is time for a "Dummies for Reefers" or "Dummies for Saltwater Aquariums".
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bodine:
<strong>
LET YOUR TANK DO THE TALKIN`</strong><hr></blockquote>
Does this apply to bonafide experts too? Because I know quite a few who have less then spectacular tanks.
<strong>
LET YOUR TANK DO THE TALKIN`</strong><hr></blockquote>
Does this apply to bonafide experts too? Because I know quite a few who have less then spectacular tanks.
Number of posts is just a measure of participation. It doesn't make you right or wrong. Some might feel if you don't participate, you don't have a right to complain. Kind of like not voting for president and then complaining about the state of the union. You still have that right even if you don't vote. I'd rather hear your complaint than not know where you stand.
It goes to "my vote doesn't count". True, but if everyone thought that way, well...
Anyway, I'm fairly new, so I spend a lot of time observing my tank, and occasionally check here if I have a question. If I have something to contribute, I'll do that, but otherwise, I just use this as a reference and take it with a grain of salt. Kind of like life.
A while ago I asked about tangs and Powder Blue Tangs. There are some that feel that this is an impossible fish to keep long term. However, I have ond friend that has a big healthy one that he has had for 3 years. Another friend has had his for a year. And yet I go to wholesalers and see many dead ones. I see a lot at LFS and they look skinny and malnourished. Should I buy one, or not?
Should I buy only frags, or is it okay to buy a big LPS right out of the ocean? It's my preference to buy frags and try and keep my impact on the reefs of the world to a minimum, but I would like to have a big hammer, and as far as I know, you can't frag them. So, I just try to make sure that if I do get one, I know everything I can about keeping it alive and allowing it to flourish.
There really aren't any hard and fast rules, people do different things, live different lives, it doesn't make it right or wrong, it is right or wrong for you as an individual. It's a matter of choice.
Of course, I could be wrong!
m
It goes to "my vote doesn't count". True, but if everyone thought that way, well...
Anyway, I'm fairly new, so I spend a lot of time observing my tank, and occasionally check here if I have a question. If I have something to contribute, I'll do that, but otherwise, I just use this as a reference and take it with a grain of salt. Kind of like life.
A while ago I asked about tangs and Powder Blue Tangs. There are some that feel that this is an impossible fish to keep long term. However, I have ond friend that has a big healthy one that he has had for 3 years. Another friend has had his for a year. And yet I go to wholesalers and see many dead ones. I see a lot at LFS and they look skinny and malnourished. Should I buy one, or not?
Should I buy only frags, or is it okay to buy a big LPS right out of the ocean? It's my preference to buy frags and try and keep my impact on the reefs of the world to a minimum, but I would like to have a big hammer, and as far as I know, you can't frag them. So, I just try to make sure that if I do get one, I know everything I can about keeping it alive and allowing it to flourish.
There really aren't any hard and fast rules, people do different things, live different lives, it doesn't make it right or wrong, it is right or wrong for you as an individual. It's a matter of choice.
Of course, I could be wrong!
m
Pez, Bodine:
You missed my point entirely. 47 posts in two years is one post every other week, roughly. My point was that it seemed like Tazz is merely stirring stuff up. If he/she has so much experience, why not contribute more? If you aren't willing to participate don't criticize those who are!
As for quips, etc I think if you look at my posts you will see that very few are done in the sump, and the majority are responding to questions, many if them questions I have answered many times before.
I do not consider myself an expert; I simply want to share what I do know and also to learn from others with different experiences.
I also have the huevos to put my own name at the bottom of my posts.
Ernie
You missed my point entirely. 47 posts in two years is one post every other week, roughly. My point was that it seemed like Tazz is merely stirring stuff up. If he/she has so much experience, why not contribute more? If you aren't willing to participate don't criticize those who are!
As for quips, etc I think if you look at my posts you will see that very few are done in the sump, and the majority are responding to questions, many if them questions I have answered many times before.
I do not consider myself an expert; I simply want to share what I do know and also to learn from others with different experiences.
I also have the huevos to put my own name at the bottom of my posts.
Ernie
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by esmithiii:
<strong>
I also have the huevos to put my own name at the bottom of my posts.
Ernie</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course, your real name means nothing if you are danmhippo.
Once a Dan, always a Dan.
Number of posts means {squat} (well, OBVIOUSLY...
)
<strong>
I also have the huevos to put my own name at the bottom of my posts.
Ernie</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course, your real name means nothing if you are danmhippo.
Number of posts means {squat} (well, OBVIOUSLY...
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