Dwarf Angels - stocking more than one?

[Richard Rajski]

I'm planning to restock a 55gal reef which had its fish population killed by a 'liquidised cuke'.

I previously kept a Cherub Angel and was wondering if keeping more than one type of dwarf angel is feasible.

I know that keeping more than one type of tang works as long as they look different enough but does this approach work with dwarf angels?

Say a Coral Beauty and Centropyge eibli ?

Richard

 

[Anonymous]

Nothing is all the time, but what you are proposing will probably not work out long term in such a small tank.
Rule of thumb to remember, mix sizes and color patterns. Example, a flame angle and an annularis, or a cherub and a navarchus, etc. Even here, you should have a larger tank.
Cheers
Jim

 

[naesco]

Richard sorry but your tank is too small for a tang let alone more than one.

 

[whiirly]

how big does the tank need to be?????????

 

[esmithiii]

Also, dwarf angels are notorious for nipping at coral. Some specimens are OK for a while and then one day they get the taste for polyps.

I would never trust a dwarf angel in my reef.

 

[Anonymous]

In my experience argi angels are a good bet.
Jim

 

[naesco]

I think I misread your post Richard re tangs.
Whirley
Your tank should have a length of 4 feet minimum which is about 100 gallons. This is necessary as the tangs need the length to swim back and forth which is their habit.

 

[danmhippo]

Angels are hit or miss, chances are you will likely encounter territorial disputes with 2 or more angels in a 55G.

I'd recommend tanks 6 feet or longer with distinct territory boundaries for multiple angels. That being said, I would not put angels of any type into my reef tank.

 

[Moose22]

I think I misread your post Richard re tangs.
Whirley
Your tank should have a length of 4 feet minimum which is about 100 gallons. This is necessary as the tangs need the length to swim back and forth which is their habit.

Dude -- this is driving me nuts, sorry.

First, a 55 Gal IS 4' long. At least the 2 I have are, and the one in the LFS, and the one my friend has. Tanks over 100 gallon are usually 5'-6' long, minimum.

Second, pygmy angels are NOT tangs. Not even close.

That being said, I wouldn't even keep most tangs in a 55. Something like a 120gal might be a different story. I'd be comfortable with that.

As for the original poster, mixing pygmy angels in a large tank is a very difficult proposition. In a 55, if it happened, it would be something of a miracle. I did know a guy who had a pair of flame angels in a 90, but he bought them as a pair and claimed they were mated. I've not heard of anyone successfully putting 2 pygmies in something as small as a 55.

Too bad. I would love to do a FOWLR tank in a 55 with 2 or 3 angels, m'self.

 

[Mouse]

First, a 55 Gal IS 4' long. At least the 2 I have are, and the one in the LFS, and the one my friend has. Tanks over 100 gallon are usually 5'-6' long, minimum.

Not if its twice the width. I would say 100G bare minimum for Dwarf Angels and Tangs, With a minimum length of 4'. You probably have a 18" wide aquarium, and theres nothing wrong with it, my 25g is the same.The majority of freshwater tanks of that length are. I just wish id bought a custom wider one on reflection because all of my corals are kinda 2x2 down the length of the tank. Not exactly aquascaping.

For a 55G id go for an Anthia, Firefish, Banggi Cardinal, Orchid Basslet type fish. Not to big, non aggressive. I just dont think its fare to coup up timid species with a very dominant fish all in a small tank. And if your thinking of an Angel, (which i wouldn't advise due to space) how are you going to find suitable tankmates who will hold their own without a fight becoming a daily occurance.

 

[dsb1829]

I've not heard of anyone successfully putting 2 pygmies in something as small as a 55.

Now you have. I have kept up to three in an established 58g tank. Granted mileage will vary when you are dealing with individual fish, but I had very little problem keeping three pygmies together. I have several things to attribute to my success. One is a lot of liverock=territory. My 58g had about 100lb of live rock for the angels to forage amongst. Two is the even temperments of the fish I kept. I cannot take credit for their temperments since they were purchased by another hobbiest before I got the tank. Last I would credit the use of a good size UV filter, good aeration, and heavy feeding to keep aggressions and disease low.

I think 2 in a 55g are just fine provided that you don't crowd them with a lot of other fish and also give them plenty of territory to forage. One word of advice is to get species that are vastly different in appearance and add them at the same time so that neither claims the entire tank as their territory.

After a few months I swapped one of the three pygmies for a majestic. I did this because I was in the planning stages of a larger FO tank. Aggression level still stayed low, but the majestic did chase the eiblii from time to time. Here is a picture from October of 2000:

 

[Moose22]

Ahh, beautiful, Doug.

I know that temperament makes a big difference in modestly aggressive or territorial fish. I know it is kind of a luck thing, too, because temperament in pygmies can be highly unpredictable. I've seen a flame angel that never nipped corals or clams -- but only one and they're known to be nippers. But it seems 2 folks here have had multiple pygmies in the same tank, so it can be done.

Who knows. Maybe if I bite the bullet and set up a 90G or larger like I've been wanting, it could be worth a try. Depends on whether I want to set up a large FOWLR tank or I decide to light it and put in corals. I'd be interested to hear from others who've had similar successes. Especially in smaller tanks.

On a side note, the "don't overcrowd, lots of places to hide, feed properly" theory is a great idea for any livestock. Having a moderately agressive fish in a small box with other aggressive fish is like locking armed palestinians and israelis in a small room with limited food. It might work, or they might kill each other before they learn to get along. :/

 

[Moose22]

Not if its twice the width. I would say 100G bare minimum for Dwarf Angels and Tangs, With a minimum length of 4'. You probably have a 18" wide aquarium, and theres nothing wrong with it, my 25g is the same.The majority of freshwater tanks of that length are. I just wish id bought a custom wider one on reflection because all of my corals are kinda 2x2 down the length of the tank. Not exactly aquascaping.

Yeah -- and lighting is a bit easier on wider tanks, too. Up to a point, at least. The 18" wide show tanks are limiting.

On another note, I may be somewhat mistaken. Pygmies aren't generally paelagic, are they? If they are generally close to rocky environs or reef faces in the wild, they'll obviously do a lot better if provided lots of caves and rocks to swim through and hide in.

One large problem with many tangs is that they ARE. They are used to swimming in the open ocean. Heck, getting a Naso is, in my mind, like trying to keep a tuna in a small tank. OK, not that bad, but the fundamental problem is there.

 

[danmhippo]

If I am not mistaken, most pygmies, due to their smaller size, hug along the rocky surface and subtrate for both shelter and for food.

 

[Bill2]

Why does no one take into effect size of the fish? I have kept a tiny flame angel in a 15gal. When I said tiny I meant tiny, less than an inch. I loved the sucker and felt uncomfortable putting him in my 230gal reef and all the nasties that are in there. Some of the bristleworms I see at night could have taken him/her down. He did fine and was eventually moved to the main tank and lived for a while until a catrostrophic event happend to my main tank If the owner of the fish is willing to upgrade with the fish and or pass the fish onto another home I see no reason keeping small fish in small tanks.

 

[dizzy]

Richard,

I have two different 75-gallon tanks that each house a pair (one each) of cherub (C. argi) and Caribbean flameback (C. aurantonata). One tank is at home and one is in my retail store. Both tanks have plenty of live sand and live rock. In the first 75-gallon the cherub and the "fireball" are both 2" in length. They are in with a pair of Swissguards, a pair of Royal Grammas, and eight small Caribbean gobies. I also have a good mix of Indo soft and hard corals in the tank. The angels have been together for about 15 months. They do spat on occasion, but are often observed feeding together on diatoms off the front glass. I would guess they are male/female. They fought some when first put together, but it was never relentless. Maybe I just got lucky.

In the second 75 the C. argi is about 1.5" and the C. aurantonata is about 2". These two never seem to quarrel and never did from day one. I also have a pair of Swissguards in this tank along with a trio of Blackcap basslets and some Caribbean gobies. There is also plenty of live rock and live sand in this tank, but I somehow introduced planaria so I don't try to keep many corals here. This group was housed in a 38-gallon tank for about 4-months prior to being moved into the 75 and IMO a 55 with plenty of good live rock and live sand, and a decent filter system is large enough to house 2" C. argi and 2" C. aurantonata for many years.

Anyone that would like to see pictures of the two pair can e-mail me and I will e-mail you back pictures.

 

[paulfromero]

Hi all,

I apologize for hijacking the thread; I am at a loss with this event.

Last friday, I bought a new pacific blue tang, a 3"+ Annularis Angel, and a 2 day old banded cat shark (6"). I had a lively group of dwarf angels...1 flame and 2 coral beauties...for a couple of months in my 300g tank. On saturday, I cleaned the tank and the filters completely; I also toppled over some live rock accidentally where the dwarf angels and flame hanged out.

the other day, I noticed that the dwarf angels are missing, and today, I saw the partially eaten corpse of what I believe was the flame under the collapse area of liverock. The two coral beauties are missing.

I think the Annularis must have killed all three, but he (in the relatively short period of time I've observed him) shows no aggression towards any of the tangs or even the small pseudochromies, cardinals, or firefish.

Might I have killed them in the (relatively)minor LR collapse??

Does the cat shark have a hand in this? I dont think so because there are slower, smaller fish in the tank plus shrimp and snails still alive.

I heard that there is usually no problems keeping a large angel with small angels (www.wetwebmedia.com) and this Annularis has been a model resident, as far as I know. I cant believe that he would or could so swiftly knock off 3 dwarf angels without some history of chasing them around.

does anyone have some experiences they could share that would help me out understanding this?

Thanks,

Paul

ps: the coral beauties are unaccounted for; perhaps I could save them by taking out the annularis?