29 gal tank - skimmer needed?
- Thread starter HuBu
- Start date
Running a skimmer gives you a nice tank buffer and is highly recommended if you are a beginner and especially on smaller tanks. It also allows you to keep a higher bioload, running without a skimmer decreases the oxygen content in the water. An a 29g tank has alot less surface area that a 30 or 20 g setup.
As for the skimmer choices the PM Hot-1 is a much better skimmer, but the CPR allows you to keep heater tubes and run carbon etc.
If your going to waste $20 on an aquaclear, better off getting an extra PH for extra circulation.
As for the skimmer choices the PM Hot-1 is a much better skimmer, but the CPR allows you to keep heater tubes and run carbon etc.
If your going to waste $20 on an aquaclear, better off getting an extra PH for extra circulation.
Running without a skimmer does NOT decrease the oxygen level in the tank if you provide proper surface agitation (point a powehead or two at the surface) I have several tanks to attest to this fact. There is also no evidence that bio load is affected either. Those of us on the "fringe" skimmerless movement are well aware of this fact.
I don't run all my tanks skimmerless, just the ones without sumps as I'm still experimenting. So far, it looks like skimmers will one day go the way of the under gravel filter.
It's all about the sand bed.
Jim
I don't run all my tanks skimmerless, just the ones without sumps as I'm still experimenting. So far, it looks like skimmers will one day go the way of the under gravel filter.
It's all about the sand bed.
Jim
Hey Hubu, are you confused yet? Ask a bunch of hobbyists an open ended question and you're going to get a bunch of conflicting answers.
The fact is there is no one answer to the question "Do I need a skimmer on a 20g?". There simply isn't enough information to provide a meaningful answer.
First, you need to decide what you want to keep in your 20g. Then you need to study whether they are all compatible, what biotope they come from, and whether it would be better to eliminate the ones that aren't compatible (it usually is). Based on what you choose, you may want to run a system higher in certain nutrients than most of us keep. For example, there are corals that come from higher nutrient, turbid environments where I wouldn't run a skimmer. I put a ton of mh light over a 15g with tridacnid clams and I like to run a little higher nitrate in that system. I have a frogfish in a 10g mangrove habitat who gets fed whole fish twice per week. I need to knock down ammonia fast but I have a dsb and mangroves to take care of nitrate so I actually use an aquaclear instead of a skimmer. On most of my reef tanks I skim like crazy and would never think of mechanical filtration. On my quarantine tank I use a regular powerfilter cause I don't want to maintain a fish in there and I don't care about nitrate cause the system gets flushed regularly. See what I mean?
It all depends on what you are going to be doing with your 20g tank. Keep the big picture in mind, survey all of your equipment choices, and put together what matches your goals for that 20g. And try to phrase your question so that you get more meaningful information from everyone who wants to help you out. Enjoy the hobby. It's a blast.
The fact is there is no one answer to the question "Do I need a skimmer on a 20g?". There simply isn't enough information to provide a meaningful answer.
First, you need to decide what you want to keep in your 20g. Then you need to study whether they are all compatible, what biotope they come from, and whether it would be better to eliminate the ones that aren't compatible (it usually is). Based on what you choose, you may want to run a system higher in certain nutrients than most of us keep. For example, there are corals that come from higher nutrient, turbid environments where I wouldn't run a skimmer. I put a ton of mh light over a 15g with tridacnid clams and I like to run a little higher nitrate in that system. I have a frogfish in a 10g mangrove habitat who gets fed whole fish twice per week. I need to knock down ammonia fast but I have a dsb and mangroves to take care of nitrate so I actually use an aquaclear instead of a skimmer. On most of my reef tanks I skim like crazy and would never think of mechanical filtration. On my quarantine tank I use a regular powerfilter cause I don't want to maintain a fish in there and I don't care about nitrate cause the system gets flushed regularly. See what I mean?
It all depends on what you are going to be doing with your 20g tank. Keep the big picture in mind, survey all of your equipment choices, and put together what matches your goals for that 20g. And try to phrase your question so that you get more meaningful information from everyone who wants to help you out. Enjoy the hobby. It's a blast.
2poor2reef: THe thing is is that I am guessing he may be new to reef tanks. Correct, many folks run just fine without skimmers, but its a proven fact that they have to be much more careful with fish bioload too. A skimmer if nothing else is a great buffering tool for beginners. I have myself personally run one of my tanks without a skimmer for a few months. My tank was fine, but in those 2 month spans, my xenia went out of control(at 3 species)spreading everywhere and so did a few softies too. At the same time a few other corals i kept didnt grow at all it seemed. But I did have a big algae outbreak in certain spots and did have to create more circulation to compensate for my bioload.
The fact is, if this person is a beginner, he should get a skimmer, and then later on as he gets more experienced and understands how everything works in the big picture, he can then always take it off if he feels it will improve his tanks own balance. But to put it simply. MOST PEOPLE use some type of skimming device on their tanks. There are a few who dont, but most people do.
The fact is, if this person is a beginner, he should get a skimmer, and then later on as he gets more experienced and understands how everything works in the big picture, he can then always take it off if he feels it will improve his tanks own balance. But to put it simply. MOST PEOPLE use some type of skimming device on their tanks. There are a few who dont, but most people do.
Tridacnid clams like nutrient rich water, but that doesn't mean NITRATE HIGH water. There's an important distinction there. Furthermore, on a tank that small water changes are simple and quick. Therefore there is no reason to only maintain corals from lagunal or nutrient rich biotypes.
Jim
Jim
IMHO, a skimmer would surely be nice if you are willing to shell out those extra bucks for a 30G. I would stick to regular water change if I were you.
R&B, I kept a whisper running in my 150G's sump to act as a pod breeder. I set the adjustable current real slow. Weekly, I remove the filter floss cartridge and finger comb it to scare-off any pods on/in the filter cartridge. Pods gives my fish treats and detritus helps feed my coral. This is repeated everyweek and the filter floss stays clean all the time.
BTW, I am running the entire 150G plus 75G sump skimmerless.
R&B, I kept a whisper running in my 150G's sump to act as a pod breeder. I set the adjustable current real slow. Weekly, I remove the filter floss cartridge and finger comb it to scare-off any pods on/in the filter cartridge. Pods gives my fish treats and detritus helps feed my coral. This is repeated everyweek and the filter floss stays clean all the time.
BTW, I am running the entire 150G plus 75G sump skimmerless.
Skimmers are overrated as gas exchange devices providing proper circulation is present. Surface exchange is far more usefull.
It's true, most reefers use skimmers. Then again, most reefers used wet/dry filters too in the not so distant past. I think they have the most utility in new tanks with immature sand beds. After that, (say 12 - 18 months) it's been my experience that they do almost nothing.
I have not observed a bio load issue when running skimmerless.
Cheers
Jim
It's true, most reefers use skimmers. Then again, most reefers used wet/dry filters too in the not so distant past. I think they have the most utility in new tanks with immature sand beds. After that, (say 12 - 18 months) it's been my experience that they do almost nothing.
I have not observed a bio load issue when running skimmerless.
Cheers
Jim
I question many of the statements being made on this thread. Most are based on assumptions for which there is really no info. You don't know what substrate is in this 20g. You don't even know what the person wants to keep. What would you say if I asked the following question: "How many watts of lighting do I need over my 20g?". You can't answer that question without knowing what I'm trying to keep in there.
If I were a newbie (and aren't we all) I would be very confused by the conflicting advice given in this thread. Some of it doesn;t seem to make much sense. Just to take one example. Jim just said
Most of us who keep fish in our reef tanks like to feed them. Some of us choose to feed heavily. Some of us use liquid supplements to soak the food like selcon. I think it makes for healthier fish. Some of it tends to come off in the water. Food and supplements uneaten become dissolved organics. Given the same setup, deep sand bed, etc. If I skim heavily I can feed more heavily. If I skim heavily, I could even stock more heavily, though I wouldn't personally.
The point is that you can use different equipment for different environments. And you don't even know what environment this reefer is trying to create. Often, there is also more than one way to do things.
When a thread gets this long it often looks more like people are trying to prove their own opinions correct rather than trying to help a poster. Let's really try to help people out and give good advice. And when that can't be done because we don't have enough info then let's use the thread to request more information rather than argue back and forth about our own systems. Wouldn't that be better?
If I were a newbie (and aren't we all) I would be very confused by the conflicting advice given in this thread. Some of it doesn;t seem to make much sense. Just to take one example. Jim just said
He was speaking of skimmers. Yet anyone who has a two yaer old reef with an effective skimmer knows that the collection cup still fills with smelly gunk that must be emptied regularly. Few would choose to pour that gunk back into their water column. Clearly, the skimmer is still doing something.
Most of us who keep fish in our reef tanks like to feed them. Some of us choose to feed heavily. Some of us use liquid supplements to soak the food like selcon. I think it makes for healthier fish. Some of it tends to come off in the water. Food and supplements uneaten become dissolved organics. Given the same setup, deep sand bed, etc. If I skim heavily I can feed more heavily. If I skim heavily, I could even stock more heavily, though I wouldn't personally.
The point is that you can use different equipment for different environments. And you don't even know what environment this reefer is trying to create. Often, there is also more than one way to do things.
When a thread gets this long it often looks more like people are trying to prove their own opinions correct rather than trying to help a poster. Let's really try to help people out and give good advice. And when that can't be done because we don't have enough info then let's use the thread to request more information rather than argue back and forth about our own systems. Wouldn't that be better?
I wouldnt say ovverated at all as gas exchange devices, it will all depend on the size of the skimmer relative to the tank and how much oxygen it does in fact mix into the water on an hourly basis. One thing I have noticed is that on hot days where tank temps may rise considerably it sure doesnt hurt having the skimmer. And I also never worry about overfeeding my tank with one, in fact I promote it, because all the excess food that isnt eaten will end up in the skimmers collection cup instead of the fear of raising ammonia and nitrite levels. Like I stated a skimmer is a great buffer tool. And this along with you comment about immature sand beds just helps to boost my own point with people starting up into this great hobby.
Yes, your point about beginners is a good one. I haven't given up using them altogether yet myself. I suppose if someone is a total newbie, then perhaps a skimmer is the best way to go. Most of us develope an intuition over time that allows us to accertain the condition of our tanks with a glance. A beginner would not have this, so I suppose I would have to concede that a skimmer would be a helpful buffer. Helpful, and necessary though are two different things. :wink:
The correct answer to the orginal question, is still a NO provided he's running a DSB. I have a 7 gallon and a 40 gallon that are two of the nicest tanks I've ever had. NO SKIMMER
I would direct the original poster to the skimmerless forum here http://www.aqualinkwebforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
for additional info.
Oh, and 2poor, my experience differs from yours. Perhaps you feed more than I do. The above comment about a skimmer allowing you to feed more is also a point to consider.
Cheers
Jim
The correct answer to the orginal question, is still a NO provided he's running a DSB. I have a 7 gallon and a 40 gallon that are two of the nicest tanks I've ever had. NO SKIMMER
I would direct the original poster to the skimmerless forum here http://www.aqualinkwebforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
for additional info.
Oh, and 2poor, my experience differs from yours. Perhaps you feed more than I do. The above comment about a skimmer allowing you to feed more is also a point to consider.
Cheers
Jim
I've never fully understood why skimmerless hobbyists (especially the Aqualink crowd) are so adament and dogmatic about their opinion. That said, brand me equally guilty when I say that skimmers serve a very functional and effective purpose of nutrient control/export as well as gas exchange, and will not "go the way of the Dodo" in the foreseeable future.
I recommend you get one, Hubu. It's not absolutely necessary, per se, but it's one of the better investments for a reef tank.
I recommend you get one, Hubu. It's not absolutely necessary, per se, but it's one of the better investments for a reef tank.
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
