Tide Generating Tank -- Anyone tried this?!?

[CraigLampe]

I was wondering if anyone had tried to create a tank/water flow system which creates one or more "tides" everyday?

I don't mean using wavemakers, I know about 30% of ALL of us use something like that...

A tank that will drain into some sort of reservoir -- allowing it occupants (perhaps SPS corals) to be exposed to air for any sort of period of time?!

hopefully some pics of any tank would be interesting... otherwise I will have to create this myself -- my latest fluid flow design project!!!

 

[Anonymous]

do a search on "surge device" in the DIY forum.

bound to come up with something.

 

[O P Ing]

hi.
Surge device is not the same as tidal simulator. Tide comes and goes twice a day.

I don't know why you want to do tides. Most tanks are setup for a constant level of water in the main tank, and having tide will make the setup a lot more complicated. I don't know if there is any benefit in making tide.

If you insist, you can use a ball valve and a big bucket that drain some of the tank water out for a period of time, and pump it back in later. It is difficult to make this task (similar to water change) impressive.

Did you ever heard of the fellow who uses a 5000 lb. lead ball to simulate the gravitational pull of sun and moon on coral? I hope you are not into that route.

 

[Marrowbone]

just had to chime in... i always thought it would be cool to simulate tides. true it might not be easy to alter water levels in tanks and such but anything's possibe.

my current idea would be to have a large sump/refugium and more than one return pump, one larger than the other. the larger one would be turned on to simulate high tides. there would also need to be adiquate additional circulation both above and below for when only the small return is on... who knows... i thought it would be cool to have intermittent flow flushing the refuguim.

as far as that 5000lb ball idea.. ive heard mention of it before and all i can think is WHY WHY WHY? the moon is still orbiting around each and every one of our reef tanks just as much as it is around every ocean in the world. the gravitational pull of the moon i would think is not only impossible to simulate but completely unneccesary because it already exists everywhere on earth... that said, does anyone have a link to info on this idea? just curious.

 

[brokekyle]

better keep in mind even at the lowest tides the coral tips do not completely dry out.. waves!!!!

 

[O P Ing]

all i can think is WHY WHY WHY?

hi.
My point is that there are many many useless thing that we can do, but if we direct the efford into things that really matters, the corals and fishes will be much better off.

 

[SeaMac]

OP Ing,

To make a statement like your last one leads the reader to believe that you have already done such experimenting with tides in captive aquaria, and that you can prove that the idea is in fact "useless". Do you have any first hand experience with this?

If not, I think you should at least agree that Craig's idea is creative and has potential merit...and can only be evaluated when someone actually gives it a shot.

Just my $0.02.
Chris

 

[Anonymous]

O P ing,

wouldn't a large surge device be the simplest way to get this desired effect? have it on a timer that runs a pump once or twice a day? the return could be airline, and the device have an overflow off the top? or something like that.

BTW, i saw his reasoning for doing it on another thread. seems somewhat validating to try it.

 

[O P Ing]

hi.
I offered a "simple" DIY plan in the other thread. There, I also mention why it is not a good idea.

I admit that I should not waive off the suggestion like I did, but there is also a fallacy in "first hand experience" argument. For example, what if I tell other people not to jump down a tall building?

 

[Anemone]

Martin Moe discussed an aquarium design which might fit the bill at MACNA - he called it the Variable Level Dynamic Aquarium System (VLDAS). I have a diagram and description of the set up in a MACNA review article I did here - Saturday morning's first presentation.

Kevin

 

[brokekyle]

OP Ing,

To make a statement like your last one leads the reader to believe that you have already done such experimenting with tides in captive aquaria, and that you can prove that the idea is in fact "useless". Do you have any first hand experience with this?

If not, I think you should at least agree that Craig's idea is creative and has potential merit...and can only be evaluated when someone actually gives it a shot.

Just my $0.02.
Chris

HUH??I agree with OP..the poster is trying to vary water height to simulate tides. Not flow directions. do you know the tide fluctuation in the tropics?? It's +or- 2ft. ( I think).. do you really thing that's a good idea for a captive system?..can you think of a system that can handle about %30 of the tanks capacity for a surge devise?..
But if you really want to try it here's what you do.. lower your main rerurns from your sump to your low tide level .(of course make sure the sump can handle the extra volume..mine can)
put your main return pump on a 6 hour timer..when it shuts off the returns will siphon to low tide.
(you really want dry corals for 6 hours?)
drill another hole at the low the low tide mark..Install a 1/2" bulk head.. then install a NC solenoid.. then plumb to sump.
build surge ..and your good to go.. I think.. hope I didn't over look anything

 

[delphinus]

I imagine that there are plenty of critters (e.g., some species of snails and whatnot) that are intertidal and that would benefit from such a setup, but unless one had a particular desire to keep an intertidal zone biome, I'm not sure if there would be any huge benefits to non-intertidal creatures. Most corals that I can think of are below the tidal zone, or if above the low tide mark, only above the low tide mark for a transient amount of time and rather "endure" the time rather than "require" it. But this is just my speculation, I wouldn't know for sure, so I guess the only way to know for sure is to try this. It for sure is an interesting project, e.g., technically challenging, but one last parting thought: have you ever "smelled" the intertidal zone? It might not be all that desireable a scent to have wafting through your living room!

 

[danmhippo]

Wasn't there a guy in Ozzie that posted a commercial link here a couple of months ago selling his setup. I remembered the set up employs a undergravel filter. The bottom of the tank has a valve that leads to the sump. The idea is to help you make water changes and in the same time simulate conditions in the intertidal zone. His system, I think, can be set to go active on a timer, and doing this also eliminates any dead spots and detritus accumulation.

I will try to find the link, or Chucker the super seeker and find it for us.

 

[ReefLion]

The difficulty with this idea is that, with the way most of us set up tanks, adding and removing water for a period of time will only drop the level of the sump, not the display tank. You have to do this sumpless, which is problematic in itself IMO, or you have to have a variable height overflow. That also could cause lots of problems depending on how you did it.

Tim

 

[Anonymous]

You have to have a short overflow (at the waterlevel of your low tide), a large enough sump, and two pumps.

The intrinsic value of tidal currents in aquaria can't be known. Its effects on corals in the wild have not been assessed to their fullest yet. Tides seem to have an influence on spawning coordination in corals (Acropora clathrata is a well studied example). The spawning seems to often correspond with the lowest tidal currents experienced over the semi-onthly period of spring and neap tides, when water movent due to tides is imperceptible. Other things to be considered, like metabolic gradients and nutrient uptake kinetics may vary when tidal currents are applied. The effects of tidal waves are more likely to be seen in the dynamic linear energies they cause, rather than the actual fluctuation of water level (where in the wild, the change in water level causes the currents, in a closed system, this isn't likely to be so).

 

[Anemone]

The difficulty with this idea is that, with the way most of us set up tanks, adding and removing water for a period of time will only drop the level of the sump, not the display tank. You have to do this sumpless, which is problematic in itself IMO, or you have to have a variable height overflow. That also could cause lots of problems depending on how you did it.

Tim,

Martin Moe's setup worked quite well - we watched a video of it during the presentation. It slowly, in a step-wise fashion, drained lower and lower, then began filling in steps until it reached a certain height and started the siphon to begin the draining process again. A very neat setup!

Kevin

 

[Anonymous]

better keep in mind even at the lowest tides the coral tips do not completely dry out.. waves!!!!

They do in a lot of reefs actually. Especially in the Pacific.

Galleon (aka Chris) who used to be a moderator here is actually an advocate for dry shipping SPS corals wrapped in a seawater moist paper towels. He says they ship well that way. 24 hours.

 

[CraigLampe]

some interesting ideas and thoughts... now that I hav emy curiosity going I am quite sure I will HAVE to try this...

 

[Dumb Guy]

hi.
I admit that I should not waive off the suggestion like I did, but there is also a fallacy in "first hand experience" argument. For example, what if I tell other people not to jump down a tall building?

And they wouldn't jump down the building, because people have done it with negative results (unlike the untried tidal system).

I think it's a cool concept... but I think I'll wait for Craig's results before i try it.

 

[brokekyle]

better keep in mind even at the lowest tides the coral tips do not completely dry out.. waves!!!!

They do in a lot of reefs actually. Especially in the Pacific.

Galleon (aka Chris) who used to be a moderator here is actually an advocate for dry shipping SPS corals wrapped in a seawater moist paper towels. He says they ship well that way. 24 hours.

That ain't dry.. that's damp shipping.. completely different from lowering the water level in a captive system for 6 hours at a time


Dr. Reef.. tell ya what.. you expose your dry SPS tips to mid day tropic sun and see what happens. They'll burn and the tips will die..
No.. just let them sit dry under your tanks light for one hour.. see what happens? They'll burn and the tips will die. On the natural reefs the oceans swell keeps them moist.. Just like Craig wants to do with newspaper. And if you noticed most the corals that found in these inter tidal areas are stunted in growth and have dead tips...

And Dr Reef I have at least 300 hours of reef time in the tropics.. have the reef rash/scars to prove it..
And I'll say it bluntly..
Raising and lowering the water level in a captive system to simulate tide heights is just about the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard..