Kalkwasser Spinach

[kipreefer]

Is there any way to make kalkwasser Popeye strength other then vinager. I was wondering if there any calcium supplements such as Calcium Chloride you can add to your kalkwasser. I am guessing this wont work though because of calcium percipitating when it touches the Alkalinity ion in solution. Any advanced chemsit personal have input on this.
Thanks

 

[randy holmes-farley]

No, there is nothing that you can add to limewater to up the strength besides the organic acids like vinegar.

If you add calcium chloride, that will up the calcium, and drop the alkalinity that is delivered (assuming that you started with saturated limewater) for the reason that you suggested: Ca(OH)2 will precipitate.

Incresing evaporation with fans is one way to help, however.

 

[Apophis924]

Randy,what is the SG of your tank? I know my Ca++ went from 380 to 400 when i adjusted my SG from 1.021 to 1.025 And that increase is before addition of any supplements. . I use IO salt. It is not a big jump but every little bit helps. After limewater i keep it around 450- 470. I Measure the SG with a refractometer i have had horrible problems with accuracy and consistancy when using them damn plastic hydrometers.

 

[O P Ing]

...my Ca++ went from 380 to 400 when i adjusted my SG from 1.021 to 1.025

hi.
You can't get something from nothing, and this applies to calcium. The increase in Ca you see is partially due to the Ca in the salt you added to bring the SG up, and partially due to error in the test kit.

 

[O P Ing]

hi.
... oh, just use two parts additives (CaCl2 + sodium carbonate), since Ca concentration in CaCl2 solution is many order of magnitude higher than what is possible with kalk, even with vinegar. The problem with two parts additives is that the NaCl concentration will go up steadily, and more expensive, but with regular water, there is nothing that can beat what you want to accomplish short term.

So how much calcium demand do you have that make you to look into beefing up the kalk? Most likely, your calcium demand can be satisfied with the use of a properly turned Ca rxtor if you don't have the evaporation rate needed for dosing kalk.

 

[kipreefer]

No i dont have a problem with getting calcium up. I was just curious if it was possible to do. Thanks chemist for the way it works and a little more detailed aproach.

One question though does magnessium play as big as a role as some people say when it comes to calcium? When i first set up my tank i had problem with calcium. I tested my magnessium and it was low. I increased Mg and then i found i could handle my Ca. Im just curious if this was just because of my inexperience?
Thanks

 

[Apophis924]

Thats my point you increase the density and you atuomatically increase ca++. If one rasies the ca++ value before addition of supplments then you have to add that much less. As far for the increase in Ca being the result of the test not being precise... I do all my test three times and average the results. Basic chemistry dictates that when you increase the the amount of solute in a solution you will automatically increase the concentration of such solute. In other worlds no matter what salt you use make a soluiton of 1.021 SG and one of 1.025 SG and you WILL see an increase in the concentration of the elements that is in salt mix. NaCL is not the only thing that will show an increase when you raise the density of ones salt water mix.

 

[Will C1]

magnesium was explained to me as the sugar that gets the calcium cycle going.

 

[O P Ing]

hi.
I was just saying that if you look at the portion of the increase in calcium, there is a slight discrepany because of the test kit. What I failed to state is that it can due to the inconsistancy of IO salt, as well as chemical dynamic of calcium when concentration change. I hope you don't feel that I am directing anything personal at you when I point this minor point out.

Regarding Mg, it does play a biological role when it comes to coral, but as far as chemistry goes, it is independent from Ca in aqueous chemistry. I should mention that there maybe some interaction between Ca and Mg (they are similar in size and behavior) that explans your observation, but off the top of my head, I can't remember anything that does.

 

[Apophis924]

Will C, chemically Mg and ca are very similar, you can always tell this because similar elementsare cloesly located on the periodic chart. The reasom Mg helps maintian Ca is that Mg takes up the "spaces" or sites that ca would use to precepitate out of solution. Like crystal poisoning. It prevents precipitation and crystalization of ca. and if it cannot crystalize or precipitate out of solution it remains in soultion thus rasing your ca concentration. This is a VERY basic explaination there are many other processes taking place that control the ca and mg relationship but that is it in a nut shell.

 

[Apophis924]

Hey I P ing, no harm no foul, not taking it personal didnt mean to give that impression. You know how passionate us reefers can be. If you really want I know I think reef chemistry is alot like quantum physics. Everything is okay and stable UNTIL you measure it. LOL , never had ph problems, alk problems or ca or mg problems until i got the test kits and began tracking such values. It seems if you by the test kit for it, you will be buying a supplment to correct it Could it be that it is a plot to keep such supplements in demand?

 

[O P Ing]

hi.
There is certainly some kind of conspircy theory on the supplement sector, especially when you think about why test kits are so hard to use.... so is that blue or purple??? :wink:

There are a few snake oils out there that gives the rest of the additive industry bad name. I am sure some additives can be used as medication for organ enlargement, weight loss, hair growth, etc. :wink:

I only use test kit when I start/restart a tank, or for diagnostic reason. MHO is that most people are too sensitive about the difference between 395ppm and 405ppm, and spending too much effort in jacking up Ca/Alk/Mg/Sr/I etc., than to really enjoying the tank as a pleasure rather than a obligation.

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Randy:

I think that many times magnesium is getting the blame for problems that it is not responsible for. That said, magnesium does help keep calcium in solution. The reasons are detailed in this article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2002/chem.htm

 

[Garry thomas]

magnesium is very important i explain it as being a link in the ca chain :roll: