Help Me Plan MY Next Upgrade!

[meschaefer]

I am in the process of planning my next upgrade. Although I haven?t made any final decisions, I am probably going to do 180 gallon in wall set up with "tank room" behind it. As there are a lot of decisions to be made in setting this up, I thought I would start a thread where I could bounce ideas off of people and get some input. I am many months away from actually installing a tank, I would like to get the tank into place sometime around September/October, but there are decesions that need to be made relatively soon.

The first choice is the location of the "tank room". The tank will go in the basement. The ideal location for the tank would be in an area that is now occupied by a utility closet. The final space would be about 6 foot by 8 foot. What makes this an ideal location is that there is already a "room" that exists in this area, so in my wife?s mind I am not building anything "new" to house the tank. One of the walls is an outside wall, so it would be really easy to vent. Finally the room has a cold water hook up and a drain line so I could install my RO/DI unit in there, a sink and a floor drain to help contain any spills. The Downside of using this "room" is that I have the electrical breaker boxes for the first floor and the basement of my house in there as well.

I am concerned about the humidity and the "salt air", and any negative effect that this will have on the electrical boxes. As indicated above, there is an outside wall so it would be very easy to vent this room. I figure that the total system volume (as envisioned now) will be about 250 - 300 gallons between the display, sump, fuge and frag tanks.

I could move the "tank room" in order to avoid the electrical boxes, but the only other reasonable space lacks everything else. There are no outside walls so venting the room will be a challenge, there is no water hook up in the room, nor a drain for me to run the RO/DI nor add a sink. (granted all these things could be added, but they create other challenges) Finally, this would be an entirely new room as opposed to a new use for an old space. This is important when keeping my wife happy, I want to keep her happy, as she has consented to this project despite her mistrust of me and my projects and her dislike of my tanks. (I told her that larger tanks are easier to maintain, that there will be less perceptible noise, and that all of my equipment will have a home, i.e. it will not be laying all over the house)

Any thoughts on the humidity issue?

 

[jhale]

hey Matt,

a fan to the outside wall will solve any humidity problems.
it can also be ducted to the hood and take the heat out with it.

is the tank project going to happen before or after you gut the basement?

 

[meschaefer]

After I gut the basement, I need to know where to have the room built.

 

[ming]

Considering your lights usually have a lot of electrical wires near the water and they are typically fine, I would think the breaker box should be fine as well. Just try to give the sump a little distance from the box because bubbling/splashing things tend to have more salt spray

 

[cali_reef]

Get a Fantec thermoplastic inline fan on a dehumistat switch and you will be good to go. It will keep the room in less humidity than it would be previously on a hot summer day. I had about 600 gallons of saltwater in my utility room and a 108CFM Fantec kept the utility room at about 60% all summer. You can also box in the breaker box with a access door to prevent salty wet air from settling on the surface area.

How are you going to heat the room?

 

[jhale]

I agree with ming, as long as the breaker box is not near the sump it should be fine.

 

[meschaefer]

I am not worried to much about splashing and things like that, as I will have plenty of space between the boxes and the sumps and other tanks, I was just concerned with the humidity.

I have been reading though the large tank threads on RC and have noticed that humidity has been an issue at times. Usually with people who keep the sump and all the equipment in a garage causing rust on their tools and things like that. It got me to thinking about the electrical boxes, as needing to replace them because of my tanks would not make the wife happy. (That is the numer one rule in this build...keep the wife happy)

 

[meschaefer]

How are you going to heat the room?

Good question. My house is currently heated with steam. Since I don't like my current heat in my house, I don't think I would extend it to the basement. I know electric baseboard heating is an option, but I am not sure what other options I have.

I don't kow that I would specifically heat the "tank room", but the other areas will definatly need some type of heat. I figured that the room would pick up the ambient heat from the other rooms that surround it and from the tank. Or do you think I need to specifically heat this room as well?

Peirce - on another note, I would love to come buy and take a look at your 150 to get some ideas on how I will eventually plump this thing togther and set it in the wall.

 

[jhale]

I like Rich Durso's thread, his is a 180 also and he shows how he built the tank room and did his venting.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=505355&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[cali_reef]

Hot water would be a better choice than electric baseboard. You will need a 200AMP service panel to have enough room to connect 5-6 electric baseboards, ConEd is going to love you:bunnies:. I just did some rewiring for a guy with electric baseboards, pain in the butt.

Heating that much water in an unheated basement area will cost $$$ in electric heaters. I was going to heat my water with a heating coil piped off my boiler, I have killed that idea when I split my large system into three smaller ones.

Any time next week is good, I am out in the west until late Thurs this week.

Maybe the other guys with tank rooms will chime in soon.

 

[meschaefer]

I like Rich Durso's thread, his is a 180 also and he shows how he built the tank room and did his venting.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=505355&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

I havn't read that one, but I will print it out to read on the train.

 

[meschaefer]

Hot water would be a better choice than electric baseboard. You will need a 200AMP service panel to have enough room to connect 5-6 electric baseboards, ConEd is going to love you:bunnies:. I just did some rewiring for a guy with electric baseboards, pain in the butt.

Heating that much water in an unheated basement area will cost $$$ in electric heaters. I was going to heat my water with a heating coil piped off my boiler, I have killed that idea when I split my large system into three smaller ones.

Any time next week is good, I am out in the west until late Thurs this week.

Maybe the other guys with tank rooms will chime in soon.

Hot water it is then. I will PM you about setting up a time to come take a look at your 150.

 

[meschaefer]

I havn't read that one, but I will print it out to read on the train.

I started to print out Durso's tank Thread on RC, and figure it will take about 500 pages to print the whole thing out. I printed out 200 pages last night.

 

[SIReefer]

Although steam is antique, it is a good "radiant type" heat. If your tank room is in the basement then the steam boiler should be there too. My old tank was in a basement room on the opposite side of the boiler and it was adequately heated. Note: I had an unfinished basement and the steam pipes were all exposed in the ceiling. If you can make use of an existing heat source it will be cheaper than heating only the tank. Second: Your Location-Astoria, Qns. Last years power outage had to take it's toll on your tank. A portable generator might be a good investment as I doubt that all of last years power issues are resolved. Good Luck with your endeavor.:fish:

 

[meschaefer]

Although steam is antique, it is a good "radiant type" heat. If your tank room is in the basement then the steam boiler should be there too. My old tank was in a basement room on the opposite side of the boiler and it was adequately heated. Note: I had an unfinished basement and the steam pipes were all exposed in the ceiling. If you can make use of an existing heat source it will be cheaper than heating only the tank. Second: Your Location-Astoria, Qns. Last years power outage had to take it's toll on your tank. A portable generator might be a good investment as I doubt that all of last years power issues are resolved. Good Luck with your endeavor.:fish:

Amazingly enough I was spared the blackout. I didn't even know that there was a black out for the first two days. (I think that my block was the only one that was had power, as everybody around me was dark) That being said I have taken some precautions to be able to run some circulation equipment for about six hours or so.

Although they have been doing extensive, and I mean extensive work on the electrical system in the neighborhood, a generator is part of the overall upgrade plan. I am not going to drop the $ into stocking a tank this size without taking some precautions for the inevitable.

In terms of heat, I hadn't really thought about it until Cali brought it up. My basement has exposed steam pipes and although it does keep the basement warm, it is definatly not as hot as the rest of the house. In turning the basement into living space, I will probably need to add some type of addtional heating source.

 

[meschaefer]

I am still talkng to various people in order to get the construction started, but in the mean time the planning continues. The next thing I want to consider is my method of calcium/alkalinity supplmentation. This tank will be almost entirly SPS, perhaps a few zoa or lps for good measure, but the focus will be SPS.

I am currently dosing Randy's Two Part (really should be called Three Part) on my 65 gallon. The choice between two part and a calcium reactor was based upon space considerations. I just didn't have the room for a calcium reactor under a tank that was only three foot long. It was my intention to get an aquamedic doser in order to automate my dosing, as I am definatly not to good at remembering to dose consitently. Before I was given the opportunity to upgrade, the doser was going to be my very next purchase.

With the 180 I will have plenty of room for a calcium reactor, so my choice does not need to be based upon space constraints. Althought the tank will not be set up for months, I would like to make a decision as to how I will take care of supplmentation in the 180 now. That way if I decide to use the aquamedic doser, I can purchase it sooner rather than later as I could use it on the 65 gallon.

Any thoughts?

 

[loismustdie]

Matt, I also have steam heat. I run hot water to a base board in my basement. Warm enough.
You know I'm out on reactors and I push 2 part like I'm it's pimp. I dose 379 ml per day. At that rate , a 5 gallon bucket lasts around 3 months. Around $40 a year. I don't think anyone with a reactor can compare to Rich, Shaun and I in growth. Kedd is also a 2 part guy, he uses the ESV stuff. Again, there are other factors involved. I'm not saying it's only 2 part to thank for the growth, but common denominators. The same trend seems apparent on RC. Also, I've tested Shaun and Rich's water. It's exceptional to put it mildly.
When you have time, you can come over here. Check out my system. I like when people pick it apart. It was tough criticism from others that helped get my tank where it is. We are far too PC on the open forums.
I'll show you how I build my sumps to be quiet and reduce any splashing. Nick's tank is silent. Fish rooms are great, but they can still be a little loud. Design it as best you can.

 

[jhale]

I'm all about the 3 part. I'll use both ESV B-Ionic and Randy's formula.
One thing I do is always use ESV MG for both types.

 

[meschaefer]

You know I'm out on reactors and I push 2 part like I'm it's pimp. I dose 357 ml per day. At that rate , a 5 gallon bucket lasts around 3 months.

Three months for five gallons is not bad, and I could only hope to have your growth. I guess this was the information I was looking for. I was concenred that with a larger tank, I would go through so much of it, that it would become a hassel.

Do you does Mg as well?

I'm all about the 3 part. I'll use both ESV B-Ionic and Randy's formula.
One thing I do is always use ESV MG for both types.

Is there any reason you use the ESV as opposed to Randy's?

How do guys dose it. Manually or automated?

 

[loismustdie]

I've never had to dose the third part. I don't know why. My Mg remains high. I have a gallon of it on hand in case I need it. I think it is my water changes that helps maintain my Mg, but I honestly never tested the Mg levels of my salt. So I have no answer as to why I don't use Part 3.
A lot of people feel ESV is better than the Randy 2 part. Some also feel that more Randy 2 part needs to be used for the same results. I've used both and see no difference between the 2. I'm using slightly more Randy than I did ESV. The cost difference would equal over $40 every month for ESV, compared to over $40 for the entire year of Randy Recipe 1. Making it sucks, as you can be mistaken for the local crack dealer (you should have seen the look on the kids face at the Stop and Shop when I bought 12 pounds of baking soda), but for me and the amount I use, it makes sense.
Manual dosing is fine. Save up the money and buy a doser when you don't want to get up and do it anymore. I have the doser set up on 4 gallon buckets, so I only have to do anything once every couple of months (refill the buckets). These are the calcium pumps for the Dialyseas. I love them. Best move I made in a long time. The Dialyseas doses the 2 part for me.