Twirling Flame Angel after crypto - WHAT"S WRONG!!??

[mab]

I have a small flame angel (faily new arrival in QT) that came down with cryptocarrion last week. His eyes were badly infected. He has been in hyposalinity now for a week and all evidence of parasites in gone. He also got 7 days of Maracyn and Maracyn 2 for possible secondary infections. However, his eyes still look glassy and he twirls or spins in place to the left all the time. He does not seem to be eating and I am concerned. HELP!! any ideas from you experinced folks will be much appreciated. He is in the QT with a Yellow Tang and a Scooter Blenie, They did not seem affected by the crypto, go figure...

 

[SAT]

Sounds a lot worse that just plain Crypto. My guess is the eye was damaged and infected in transport. Twirling indicates some internal problem, possibly related to the eye.

I've never had a fish in this shape survive, but here's a few suggestions:
A) Double-check your salinity. If it's below the fish's internal salinity, the fish may not be capable of compensating.

B) Try a different antibiotic. Obviously the Maracyn isn't doing the job.

C) If you can get it to eat, try an injestable antibiotic.

D) Make sure your water conditions are maintained in top shape. This is not a good time to be poisoning the fish!

If you decide to try more exotic treatments (B or C), I suggest separating the flame from the other fish. There's no sense in subjecting them to potentially harmful treatments.

Good luck!

 

[mab]

Thanks for the valuable suggestions Stuart.

Salinity is at 1.009-1.010 (S.G) and as I understand (to successfully treat the Crypto) it should be maintained this low for 30 days to avoid reinfection. Are you suggesting that I bring salinity slowly back to >1.020-1.023?

The fish has had two treatments of 5 days each of Maracyn II and Neosulfex with a 3 day break in between. I don't think the Flame is eating, I can't even be sure if can see, yet he seems to be hanging in there, he is not twirling as much now, he is more stationary in one spot.. Injection is out of the question for me - I wouldn't know, what, how or how much... too risky. Any other thoughts?

 

[SAT]

I wouldn't bring the salinity back to normal since that would terminate the treatment for Crypto. However, I might bring it up slightly, say to 1.011 (15ppt). The danger of hyposalinity is you're very close to the normal osmotic pressure internal to the fish. If you drop even slightly below that, many saltwater fish can't cope. At 1.009, you could be over the limit if your hydrometer (or whatever you're using) isn't reading accurately or isn't correctly compensated for temperature.

I would never try injection... I'd probably puncture someting vital even if I could get the dosage right. If the flame was eating, some medicated flake food might be worth a shot. Since he isn't, I think you're at the end of the medication options. Try to maintain conditions as clean and stable as possible and maybe he'll pull through.

It's conceivable, by the way, that this is a reaction to the antibiotics. I suggest using carbon (and/or water changes) to remove it, particularly since it doesn't seem to be helping.

 

[mab]

Thanks Stuart. I went up to 1.010 today (validated though 2 hydrometers and a salinity monitor so I'm faily sure it's accurate. I'll try to raise to 1.011 tomorrow. All the medications were removed with carbon a couple of days ago. My main concern is with blindness, if he can't see, he can't eat. Have you seen blindness as a result of Crypto infestation? Thanks again for the great suggestions.

 

[kipreefer]

Did you angel get cloudy eye once he got in the tank. I find that the best cure for that is water changes and a good diet but if you cant get him to eat it doesnt matter. Why dont you try treating the marine white spot with copper. It seems that the hyposalinity is stressing him out. Personally I think that the salinity is a little low for the angel he may be having a hard time keeping any nutrients in his blood stream because he is saturated with water. Well i hope this helps sorry to hear about him but angels are usually the first ones to get infected eyes of any fish that i see so you have to make sure you have excelent water quality.

 

[MattM]

The cloudy eye is a symptom of a bacterial infection. This was most likely a secondary infection - taking advantage of the fish's weakened state due to the parasitic infection.

Loss of balance or fin control ("twirling") usually means the bacterial infection has made it from the eye to the brain. While it is possible for the fish to recover from this, it is rare.

To effectively treat with antibiotics would require determining what specific pathogen is present. Since so many bacterial strains are resistant to antibiotics, it's a bit of a crap-shoot and you will probably have an equal chance of recovery if you do nothing.

Sorry...

 

[danmhippo]

I had fish recover from cloudy eye with clean water and balanced diet, but I never had fish recover from spining.

Good Luck. If you decide to treat him for another antibiotics, please separate him from other fish in QT.

 

[mab]

Thanks for the valuable insight. The Angel has acually stopped spinning now and he is more or less swimming stationary which I take as a good sign. His eyes went from cloudy to clear and kind of glassy. He is still not eating, but I am hoping for a miracle. How long can he go without food? I am keeping the water quality up with water changes from the DT. All meds are out fo the water and the SG is today at 1.011.