How does room temp. affect tank temp?

[gee_lo]

Hello All!
Please help a (brand) newbie.

I'm starting a 54 gal reef....just added live rock..and beginning to cycle.
I am using a 10 gal tank as a sump.

I am having trouble keeping the tank's temp down. Its at 85 and the lights arent even on yet. Room temp is around 76. Will adding an A/C and bringing the room temp down help the tank much? I live in a basement and I dont want to go through all the trouble of adding an A/C if its not going to do much good.

Thats my question..here are the details. There is no canopy on the tank...completely open. There are 2 mag drive 7's in the sump. 1 for return, 1 for skimmer (Kent Nautilus). There are 4 Maxi jet 1200's in the tank on a Red Sea wavemaker. Thats all the mechanics. Tank has built in overflow and is flowing over a trickle plate in the 10 gal converted wet dry (w/ no media).

I have not yet added fans over the sump...that should help.... But I cant imagine what the temp will be after throwing on the 250w MH pendant!

And..Where is all this heat coming from? The Maxi Jets are supposedly Thermally protected ...Is it just from the 2 Mag Drives?

Any suggestion other than the obvious ($$ Chiller $$)?

Thanks Guys!

Angelo

 

[reefland]

You do have some serious heat issues if you are pushing 85 without your lights on. The heat is coming from your pumps and powerheads. All internal and many external pumps add heat to the tank.

A thermally protected pump means it will shut down to prevent overheating and pump damage if it gets to hot (runs dry) -- why? because it needs water to cool itself. (thus heating the water). It doesn't mean it does not transfer heat to the water.

The fan over the sump for evaporative cooling will really help. A decent size fan (6 to 10 inch) can cool water enough to keep you heater going.

The room AC will help also. It will help cool the room which the halides will heat.

 

[Reefguide]

Wow, Thats running really hot for not having lights... Is the tank sitting in front of an open window maybe? You really do need a good fan over the sump.... As is stands, if you drop in the MH's you'll be able to boil an egg in the tank. I don't think that the fan alone is going to cut it, especially after the lights... Try looking into the AC to avoid a costly chiller... You might want to ask here about a new pump that will run a bit cooler...

 

[fishfarmer]

That also seems hot to me. Could you ditch a couple of the powerheads and direct your sump pump flow to take the place of some of the powerheads.

Also how are you measuring your temperature? Digital or glass thermometer? I prefer the accuracy of glass.

 

[jhaag]

I run a Mag 9.5 and a Mag 7 as well as 3 MaxiJet 1200's in my 90 gal and have never seen temps that high. If I were you, I would spend the $5 for another thermometer (preferably glass) just to confirm that your tank is really that hot. Ultimately, a tank will cool to the surrounding room temperature except for the added heat from the pumps. Unless one of your pumps is in the middle of a thermal meltdown, there is no way those couple of pumps could add 9 degrees to the ambient temp.

 

[Dewman]

I don't profess to know ANYTHING about flow amounts. But couldn't you ditch one of the MAG7's. in the sump. 1450 GPH seems a little much to me.

How strong is the movement in the tank? Could a fish swim through there?

 

[Anonymous]

I run a Mag 9.5 and a Mag 7 as well as 3 MaxiJet 1200's in my 90 gal and have never seen temps that high. If I were you, I would spend the $5 for another thermometer (preferably glass) just to confirm that your tank is really that hot. Ultimately, a tank will cool to the surrounding room temperature except for the added heat from the pumps. Unless one of your pumps is in the middle of a thermal meltdown, there is no way those couple of pumps could add 9 degrees to the ambient temp.

i think that a 9 degree diff. also seems to be a bit high for the total wattage you have in pumps in the system-maybe your tank' or house thermometer reading is innacurate?(especially when the lights aren't on..)
i would think that a 200 watt heater (at least) would be required to keep a tank that warm at that room temp., and that it would be on quite often!

(aha- maybe your heater is set too high!)

 

[gee_lo]

Thanks for all your quick responses...This is quite a welcoming forum!

I have read all your suggestions....And my first step has been to unplug 2 powerheads (as per fishfarmer's suggestion). So we'll see what difference that makes. Bear in mind that the 4 powerheads are never all running at the same time as they are on a wavemaker. The Mag Drive 7 is what is reccomended for the skimmer, but I do NOT need such a big pump for the return...(maybe I'll pick up a mag drive 5 instead, I am restricting the 7 with a ball valve, so I clearly dont need such a powerful one). The temp is being read with a quality glass thermometer...but I will get a backup for confirmation. The tank is not by a window either...Its in a basement. (Which is why I am weary about adding an A/C.) I'll update you guys after I remove the 2 powerheads and go with a smaller pump. I guess I should get an A/C...at least for my own comfort!! Thanks again for your suggestions.

Angelo

 

[jamesw]

How about ditching the Mag's all together? Since the Mag pumps are actually SUBMERGED in the water, guess where all of their heat goes? You guessed it - into the water.

If you get a chance to look at a tank that uses external pumps like the Iwakis or Little Giant's, feel the pump case. It's hot! All motors generate heat as a waste byproduct. With the external pump, that heat goes into the air in the room.

If you pump is submerged - all that heat goes into your tank water.

Cheers
James Wiseman

 

[Anonymous]

gee_lo-there won't be much difference bet. the 7 and the 5, with regard to the heat output -read the wattage differences on the pumps. i know it's a really basic thing, but you didn't mention if you have a heater in your system-not trying to beat a dead horse or belabor the obvious, but could that be it?an a/c is better than a chiller, imo,- you get to benefit, as well!
good luck
btw- i'm pretty sure the mags can be run externally and don't have to be submerged.

 

[fishfarmer]

How about ditching the Mag's all together? Since the Mag pumps are actually SUBMERGED in the water, guess where all of their heat goes?

Do the Mag pumps run that much hotter than say an equally sized Rio? What would be a cooler pump to run without going with an external?

I'm asking because I'm planning on switching out my Rio 1700 for fear of Murphey's Law striking me again and thought of going with a Mag.

 

[golfish]

I pretty much ran the same pumps on my old 55 along with 4x55 watt PC's and that tank never reached 80 degrees. I had one muffin fan in the canopy.

I would shut down one pump at a time and see if maybe you have a bad pump.

 

[IronChef]

Cant mag pumps be run out of water? Arn't they advertised as being able to be run submerged or dry?

 

[gee_lo]

Of Course!!!!! You are all right...The Mag drives CAN be run external! That will help out with the heat for sure. Taking the mag drives out of the sump will also make a lot more room in there. You can imagine how cramped it is...2 Mag Drive 7's, a 250 watt heater, and a Kent Nautilus skimmer...ALL IN A 10 GALLON sump! I might be able to fit some water in there! I am also going to feel all the powerheads to see if 1 is hotter than the others. And i did forget to mention...I do have a 250watt "Won Pro-heat" Titanium IC heater....its clearly not even needed.

Thanks again for all your suggestions!

Angelo

 

[Anonymous]

It sounds more that one of your pumps or heaters are defective. Even with what you have,the temp is too high. I run six pumps in my 55 and VHO lighting with out any heat issues That a small fan cannot cure.

I would unplug one pump/heater at a time for a half day to see which is overheating.

 

[2poor2reef]

In terms of your original question, ambient room air temperature has a definite affect on your tanks water temp. It's not a one-to-one relationship, so I don't think you'll see a one degree water temp drop for each degree of air temp drop, but I would expect that you might get a 3 degree drop if your cooled your air temp by 4 degrees to 72. Plus, as has been mentioned, any humanoid in the basement will benefit as well.

That is my opinion only based on my experience. Once you get your equipment issues solved and find out how warm your tank will run with a 76 degree air temp then it still might not be worth the expense of an air conditioner, but it would definitely help drop yor water temp further. I run central air at 72 degrees. I don't have a seperate zone or thermostate in the fish room so it runs hotter than that at about 76 degrees (just like your current basement). With my 250w metal halides running I still have to run heaters to maintain my temps at 80 degrees so your current situation does indicate that your're putting a lot of heat into the water column with one or more pieces of equipment.