Aqua Logic chiller failure; a long and sad story
- Thread starter sdt5150
- Start date
After reading Doug’s posts regarding his experience with an Aqua Logic chiller, I contacted Aqua Logic to find out their side of the story. Here is a summary of what I learned:
An excerpt from their warranty states: “…Our liability is limited to the cost of the defective materials. In no case will Aqua Logic assume liability for consequential damage resulting from any failure. Not covered by this warranty is damage due to corrosion, abuse, accidental, alteration, unreasonable or improper use. …”
Doug has omitted significant information in his narrative.
· Aqua Logic paid for repair bill even though they had not authorized the service.
· Aqua Logic shipped Doug a new replacement chiller with next day delivery. Aqua Logic advised Doug that he could keep both chillers so that he would have a backup on hand in case the need were to arise again.
· All told, Aqua Logic has provided more than $2000.00 in compensation to Doug.
· No one at Aqua Logic had promised to compensate Doug for his lost livestock. When Doug contacted Aqua Logic about the chiller, they asked him to set aside the livestock issue in order to resolve the problem of getting his chiller back into working order.
On a personal note:
I have worked in the aquatic industry for 10 years. Over those years, I have heard or been involved in dozens of horror stories of disasters when equipment fails on an aquarium system. In most cases the damage or loss was far more severe than it should have been because the aquarist didn’t have contingency plans for when disaster strikes. Chillers, heaters, pumps, UV sterilizers and all other support equipment can fail—just like a lawnmower, car, TV or other appliance.
In my opinion, there are a number of things that an aquarist who values his livestock and investment needs to do:
1) Always have ALL of the electrical equipment connected to ground fault interrupt (GFI) circuits.
2) Add the aquarium system and livestock to the homeowner’s or renter’s insurance policy.
3) Monitor closely the system during the first few weeks of operation. Make sure that everything is working correctly. Call it a shake-down cruise.
4) Check the condition of the equipment regularly. Keep it clean. You don’t take your car on a long trip without first changing the oil, checking the tires, etc. Why would you ignore maintaining the equipment on your aquarium?
5) Keep plenty of blue ice in the freezer—especially when you have a tank as large as Doug’s. Be ready to hit the local convenience store or supermarket for more ice.
6) Turn off the lights if the chiller fails. Livestock in the wild have periods of several days when they do not get intense light. There ARE typhoons which can cover an area for days at a time. Limited use of VHO and halide lamps to avoid heat build-up in the tank is far less harmful than extremely high water temperatures.
7) Put a temperature controller on the lights to shut them off and to sound off an alarm if water temperature rises more than 5 degrees F above the chiller set point.
8) Keep a spare pump on hand in case your primary pump fails.
9) Stock your aquarium sparingly. Then when disaster strikes (and it usually will sooner or later), you have more time to fix the problem before you lose livestock.
10) Oversize your filtration system. Water quality is the most critical element for maintaining healthy fish. On a reef tank, it is easy to invest thousands of dollars for livestock (in addition to what I call the affection factor). Why not spend a little more up front for more life support reserve in case of a disaster?
11) Keep a battery-powered air pump on hand for extended power outages. It will provide aeration and some water turn in the absence of power
In most areas of the country, our electrical grid is subjected to surges, spikes, brownouts and blackouts caused by high peak usage, snowstorms, hurricanes, thunderstorms and more.
A surge protector can help with the surges and spikes nor are they effective in brownouts. Furthermore, even the best surge protector can’t protect against direct strikes of lightning.
It takes an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) or backup generators to protect against low voltage and blackouts. And it takes a backup generator to adequately power a chiller—especially a ½-HP unit needed on a 300-gallon tank.
It is very unfortunate when equipment fails. However, a prudent aquarist should have a disaster plan and follow the motto, “Be prepared.”
Mike
An excerpt from their warranty states: “…Our liability is limited to the cost of the defective materials. In no case will Aqua Logic assume liability for consequential damage resulting from any failure. Not covered by this warranty is damage due to corrosion, abuse, accidental, alteration, unreasonable or improper use. …”
Doug has omitted significant information in his narrative.
· Aqua Logic paid for repair bill even though they had not authorized the service.
· Aqua Logic shipped Doug a new replacement chiller with next day delivery. Aqua Logic advised Doug that he could keep both chillers so that he would have a backup on hand in case the need were to arise again.
· All told, Aqua Logic has provided more than $2000.00 in compensation to Doug.
· No one at Aqua Logic had promised to compensate Doug for his lost livestock. When Doug contacted Aqua Logic about the chiller, they asked him to set aside the livestock issue in order to resolve the problem of getting his chiller back into working order.
On a personal note:
I have worked in the aquatic industry for 10 years. Over those years, I have heard or been involved in dozens of horror stories of disasters when equipment fails on an aquarium system. In most cases the damage or loss was far more severe than it should have been because the aquarist didn’t have contingency plans for when disaster strikes. Chillers, heaters, pumps, UV sterilizers and all other support equipment can fail—just like a lawnmower, car, TV or other appliance.
In my opinion, there are a number of things that an aquarist who values his livestock and investment needs to do:
1) Always have ALL of the electrical equipment connected to ground fault interrupt (GFI) circuits.
2) Add the aquarium system and livestock to the homeowner’s or renter’s insurance policy.
3) Monitor closely the system during the first few weeks of operation. Make sure that everything is working correctly. Call it a shake-down cruise.
4) Check the condition of the equipment regularly. Keep it clean. You don’t take your car on a long trip without first changing the oil, checking the tires, etc. Why would you ignore maintaining the equipment on your aquarium?
5) Keep plenty of blue ice in the freezer—especially when you have a tank as large as Doug’s. Be ready to hit the local convenience store or supermarket for more ice.
6) Turn off the lights if the chiller fails. Livestock in the wild have periods of several days when they do not get intense light. There ARE typhoons which can cover an area for days at a time. Limited use of VHO and halide lamps to avoid heat build-up in the tank is far less harmful than extremely high water temperatures.
7) Put a temperature controller on the lights to shut them off and to sound off an alarm if water temperature rises more than 5 degrees F above the chiller set point.
8) Keep a spare pump on hand in case your primary pump fails.
9) Stock your aquarium sparingly. Then when disaster strikes (and it usually will sooner or later), you have more time to fix the problem before you lose livestock.
10) Oversize your filtration system. Water quality is the most critical element for maintaining healthy fish. On a reef tank, it is easy to invest thousands of dollars for livestock (in addition to what I call the affection factor). Why not spend a little more up front for more life support reserve in case of a disaster?
11) Keep a battery-powered air pump on hand for extended power outages. It will provide aeration and some water turn in the absence of power
In most areas of the country, our electrical grid is subjected to surges, spikes, brownouts and blackouts caused by high peak usage, snowstorms, hurricanes, thunderstorms and more.
A surge protector can help with the surges and spikes nor are they effective in brownouts. Furthermore, even the best surge protector can’t protect against direct strikes of lightning.
It takes an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) or backup generators to protect against low voltage and blackouts. And it takes a backup generator to adequately power a chiller—especially a ½-HP unit needed on a 300-gallon tank.
It is very unfortunate when equipment fails. However, a prudent aquarist should have a disaster plan and follow the motto, “Be prepared.”
Mike
SoCal....
I've only had about two years of experience as a broke aquarist. I don't really know what side to take on the chiller issue, but I am constantly thinking of ways to better safeguard the lives of my wet friends. I appreciate your suggestions above.
Thx.
I've only had about two years of experience as a broke aquarist. I don't really know what side to take on the chiller issue, but I am constantly thinking of ways to better safeguard the lives of my wet friends. I appreciate your suggestions above.
Thx.
Mike...
thanks for the interesting and informative post. unfortunately, this is going to be a rather long response since i want to be clear this time and not 'omit any significant information from this narrative' which apparently i didn't realize i done originally. i certainly agree with a lot of what you're saying, especially with the 'be prepared for everything' mantra. the aquarium mags should print your 'commandments' at the begining of every issue so the message gets out to all the new reefers getting into the hobby. to that end, i have a massive outdoor Generac propane-powered generator that automatically restores power to my whole house in the event of a power outage. this is primarily for my reef. in addition, i have an individual 15amp GFI circuit for my chiller, 2 for my lights, and two more for 'misc equipment' like pumps etc. i know that my aquarium (the actual physical structure) is covered under my homeowners policy without actually having it itimized, since at least in pennsylvania with Allstate insurance, you have $300k of protection in the event of a catastrophe. i didn't believe that livestock was covered in the event of equipment failure, but i will most definitely be contacting my agent in the morning to find out about this. thanks for the tip, and i'll post the answer i get tomorrow. what i didn't count on is that a $1300 piece of equipment, 5 weeks old, would fail (my 5 year old Aquanetics chiller on my other reef still works like new).
yes, i have to agree that there are 2 sides to every story, but as for omitting 'significant' parts of my original narrative, i will definitely disagree with you.
first of all, regardless of what Aqua Logic's warranty states or what company line you were fed when you called AL, Rich Darby did tell me they would reimburse me for the animals lost. period. at the time, i had no idea of whether he was lying or not (apparently he was), and just saying that so i wouldn't lose control on the phone while talking to him, or if he was genuine. i would without hesitation swear under oath in a court of law that Rich told me i would be compensated for animals lost. Mike, if Rich or Gary told you otherwise, then they are flat out lying to you. that i totally guarantee.
Secondly, i certainly didn't expect him to tell me he would replace anything, so obviously i was thrilled when he told me this. my attitude towards people in general is to trust them until they give me reason to believe otherwise, and i expect the same from them. naive, maybe, but being a synical skeptic doesn't help anyone. as for the other terms of the warranty, the unit was installed properly, essentially brand new, and certainly not abused. it was in a well ventillated area etc, etc. the repairman will vouch for all this.
and speaking of the repairman, as of the day of my original post, he had not been paid (i spoke to him immediately after i spoke to AL). if he has subsequently been compensated, i do not know. he said he would be coming after me for the funds due if Aqua Logic stiffed him, but he wasn't worrying about it since generally it takes about 4 weeks for payment. and for the record, Rich DID authorize someone to come out to my house on AL's tab proir to me calling anyone. steve (the repairman) spoke to Rich while he was at my house to explain the situation to him. when i first called AL the night of the incident, i never once demanded or suggested that they foot any bill at all. i didn't ask for a new chiller, i didn't ask for them to replace animals, and i didn't ask for them to pay for an emergency visit from the repair service. i was overjoyed that they offered all of them, and i thought i made that clear from the begining. i was completely blown-away when a new chiller arrived a few days later, and i called Rich to express my gratitude. in fact, Rich told me he was going to send me a replacement controller two weeks after the original incident, but i told him it was not necessary since i use a medusa controller, and i didn't want to take advantage of him by lying and trying to get a 'freebie'.
let me try to clarify something that might have been lost along the way. the original reason of this post was to inform people of what happens when a company's product fails, and how they handle it. this isn't about money. it's about trust, honesty, and attitude. i put my trust in a company that i bought an expensive and important piece of equipment from, i was lied to when and after it failed, and i was verbally assaulted by the owner of the company when i questioned all of this.
this certainly was not a post to say i wasn't going to be getting my animals replaced so i want everyone to feel sorry for me. not even close. however, as a bare minimum, i would absolutely expect that any company manufacturing an expensive piece of equipment and dealing with sustaining life, regardless of what field they are in, would pay for a repairman to fix a brand new unit if it failed, as well as replacing it. Mike, you make it sound that aqua logic has given me $2000 out of kindness and sympathy, not because of any fault of theirs. i hope no one out there reading any of this saga believes that they should feel guilty for demanding that a company backs their product once you've laid your hard-earned money down.
personally, i think it sucks that AL can claim no responsibility for loss of life on their warranty if their new chiller fails due to their negligence, but that's how it is these days with corporations. i understand the concept that they don't want to be doling out loads of cash whenever someone decides to use them as a scapegoat should the aquarist do something stupid and wipe out their reef, but this situation is clearly different. the loss of my reef was a direct result of the failure of their product. if you buy a new car and 5 weeks later the brakes fail and someone dies, we all know someone involved with the manufacturing of the car is going to be held responsible, as well they should be, warranty or not.
aqua logic isn't the only company out there making chillers. if they were, the point would be moot: we'd all be stuck with only one option. judging from some of the other posts, people have changed their minds about what company they're buying their chillers from. hopefully other companies, as well as aqua logic (this means you Gary and Rich), will read everything said in all these posts, and take a hard look at their products and customer relations policy. this is what i intended to accomplish all along.
thanks for reading,
Doug
thanks for the interesting and informative post. unfortunately, this is going to be a rather long response since i want to be clear this time and not 'omit any significant information from this narrative' which apparently i didn't realize i done originally. i certainly agree with a lot of what you're saying, especially with the 'be prepared for everything' mantra. the aquarium mags should print your 'commandments' at the begining of every issue so the message gets out to all the new reefers getting into the hobby. to that end, i have a massive outdoor Generac propane-powered generator that automatically restores power to my whole house in the event of a power outage. this is primarily for my reef. in addition, i have an individual 15amp GFI circuit for my chiller, 2 for my lights, and two more for 'misc equipment' like pumps etc. i know that my aquarium (the actual physical structure) is covered under my homeowners policy without actually having it itimized, since at least in pennsylvania with Allstate insurance, you have $300k of protection in the event of a catastrophe. i didn't believe that livestock was covered in the event of equipment failure, but i will most definitely be contacting my agent in the morning to find out about this. thanks for the tip, and i'll post the answer i get tomorrow. what i didn't count on is that a $1300 piece of equipment, 5 weeks old, would fail (my 5 year old Aquanetics chiller on my other reef still works like new).
yes, i have to agree that there are 2 sides to every story, but as for omitting 'significant' parts of my original narrative, i will definitely disagree with you.
first of all, regardless of what Aqua Logic's warranty states or what company line you were fed when you called AL, Rich Darby did tell me they would reimburse me for the animals lost. period. at the time, i had no idea of whether he was lying or not (apparently he was), and just saying that so i wouldn't lose control on the phone while talking to him, or if he was genuine. i would without hesitation swear under oath in a court of law that Rich told me i would be compensated for animals lost. Mike, if Rich or Gary told you otherwise, then they are flat out lying to you. that i totally guarantee.
Secondly, i certainly didn't expect him to tell me he would replace anything, so obviously i was thrilled when he told me this. my attitude towards people in general is to trust them until they give me reason to believe otherwise, and i expect the same from them. naive, maybe, but being a synical skeptic doesn't help anyone. as for the other terms of the warranty, the unit was installed properly, essentially brand new, and certainly not abused. it was in a well ventillated area etc, etc. the repairman will vouch for all this.
and speaking of the repairman, as of the day of my original post, he had not been paid (i spoke to him immediately after i spoke to AL). if he has subsequently been compensated, i do not know. he said he would be coming after me for the funds due if Aqua Logic stiffed him, but he wasn't worrying about it since generally it takes about 4 weeks for payment. and for the record, Rich DID authorize someone to come out to my house on AL's tab proir to me calling anyone. steve (the repairman) spoke to Rich while he was at my house to explain the situation to him. when i first called AL the night of the incident, i never once demanded or suggested that they foot any bill at all. i didn't ask for a new chiller, i didn't ask for them to replace animals, and i didn't ask for them to pay for an emergency visit from the repair service. i was overjoyed that they offered all of them, and i thought i made that clear from the begining. i was completely blown-away when a new chiller arrived a few days later, and i called Rich to express my gratitude. in fact, Rich told me he was going to send me a replacement controller two weeks after the original incident, but i told him it was not necessary since i use a medusa controller, and i didn't want to take advantage of him by lying and trying to get a 'freebie'.
let me try to clarify something that might have been lost along the way. the original reason of this post was to inform people of what happens when a company's product fails, and how they handle it. this isn't about money. it's about trust, honesty, and attitude. i put my trust in a company that i bought an expensive and important piece of equipment from, i was lied to when and after it failed, and i was verbally assaulted by the owner of the company when i questioned all of this.
this certainly was not a post to say i wasn't going to be getting my animals replaced so i want everyone to feel sorry for me. not even close. however, as a bare minimum, i would absolutely expect that any company manufacturing an expensive piece of equipment and dealing with sustaining life, regardless of what field they are in, would pay for a repairman to fix a brand new unit if it failed, as well as replacing it. Mike, you make it sound that aqua logic has given me $2000 out of kindness and sympathy, not because of any fault of theirs. i hope no one out there reading any of this saga believes that they should feel guilty for demanding that a company backs their product once you've laid your hard-earned money down.
personally, i think it sucks that AL can claim no responsibility for loss of life on their warranty if their new chiller fails due to their negligence, but that's how it is these days with corporations. i understand the concept that they don't want to be doling out loads of cash whenever someone decides to use them as a scapegoat should the aquarist do something stupid and wipe out their reef, but this situation is clearly different. the loss of my reef was a direct result of the failure of their product. if you buy a new car and 5 weeks later the brakes fail and someone dies, we all know someone involved with the manufacturing of the car is going to be held responsible, as well they should be, warranty or not.
aqua logic isn't the only company out there making chillers. if they were, the point would be moot: we'd all be stuck with only one option. judging from some of the other posts, people have changed their minds about what company they're buying their chillers from. hopefully other companies, as well as aqua logic (this means you Gary and Rich), will read everything said in all these posts, and take a hard look at their products and customer relations policy. this is what i intended to accomplish all along.
thanks for reading,
Doug
Just a follow-up....
i spoke to my allstate rep this morning. he stated that first of all livestock isn't covered by a homeowner's policy in general, and second, this situation wouldn't be covered regardless because it's not a warranty issue (in regards to my home), but due to a product failure, and product failures aren't covered in the policy. he said it would be if the chiller or my reef was damaged due to lightning, etc, but that didn't happen here.
Doug
i spoke to my allstate rep this morning. he stated that first of all livestock isn't covered by a homeowner's policy in general, and second, this situation wouldn't be covered regardless because it's not a warranty issue (in regards to my home), but due to a product failure, and product failures aren't covered in the policy. he said it would be if the chiller or my reef was damaged due to lightning, etc, but that didn't happen here.
Doug
Sorry to hear about your experience. But does it bother anyone else or is it just me that Aqua Logic shared info on the guy with the problem to any old shmoe who called them up? Personally I would think a company would conduct themselves in a more professional manner. It makes me wonder what kind of relation socalaquarist has with aqua logic that he can call and get the entire story.
FWIW, if Joe Blow has a run in with me and tells the world about it fine. If you reading this or anyone else for that matter called me up and wanted to get the skinny on Mr. Blow, tough luck, it's not my place to say anything.
The vendor replying to accusations or becoming involved with the thread in question is one thing. But IMHO I think it's wrong to start fielding phone calls or whatever from others wanting to know more about the guy.
Just me I guess.
FWIW, if Joe Blow has a run in with me and tells the world about it fine. If you reading this or anyone else for that matter called me up and wanted to get the skinny on Mr. Blow, tough luck, it's not my place to say anything.
The vendor replying to accusations or becoming involved with the thread in question is one thing. But IMHO I think it's wrong to start fielding phone calls or whatever from others wanting to know more about the guy.
Just me I guess.
JustPhish":3ath8wsp said:
100% correct. They should not have talked to a person about another customer's issues. They should have asked where the discussion was taken place and joined here to present their side -- like other respectable vendors have done in the past.
Just a side note: I believe most chillers, when they fail, do the opposite-they heat up. Just remembering what happened to our fridge here at work, and i believe drop-in coil chillers use the same technology, it heated up to over 100 deg f! (you should've seen the food in there, then we had to eat hospital cafeteria food 8O 8O now that'll make you sick!)
HELLO?? PEOPLE??
I know I wasn't the only one who read this and felt disgust. Obviously "SoCalAquarist" is either someone who works for the company or is, in fact, the guy you spoke with trying to cover their a$$.
I sent them an email in protest, telling them they lost business over this. I know several others who did as well. I mentioned Reefs.org in my letter. I think the guy just pulled up the website and registered, typed a response to all the bad publicity they have gotten, and took off. He only has one post...
I don't know, that's just the feeling I get. :?
I know I wasn't the only one who read this and felt disgust. Obviously "SoCalAquarist" is either someone who works for the company or is, in fact, the guy you spoke with trying to cover their a$$.
I sent them an email in protest, telling them they lost business over this. I know several others who did as well. I mentioned Reefs.org in my letter. I think the guy just pulled up the website and registered, typed a response to all the bad publicity they have gotten, and took off. He only has one post...
I don't know, that's just the feeling I get. :?
There is definetly suspicion. It would be nice if SoCalAquarist can identify himself. Whatever his relationship with AL is, as a business owner, I have to say that this is a typical case of he-said, she-said. Whichever side Judge in the court of law ultimatly decided upon, it is always very bad publicity for the company. Sad, but it's the truth.
I just discovered this board and wanted to post some support myself. "SoCalAquarist" sounds like an account just created by AquaStar...especially with only one posted.
Granted, this is my first post to these boards, too
. If you were truly treated that way, I doubt you will get compensation, but you are getting far better. Get the word out, and it will cost them in the end and protect someone else.
BTW, I had a similar problem last November, but the other direction. I had a cheap controller fail and my chiller ran continuously over Thanksgiving weekend when I was out of town. When I returned my tank was ~60F from my standard 78F. I lost 2 fish and 2 corals and was quite upset. However, my controller was a couple of years old and I really had not planned in such an event.
My solution was to invest in an Aquacontroller II. The system overall seems much more reliable, certainly so in the event of a chiller or heater failure and it will page me. Of course, if the AC2 fails, something can still go wrong...I wish they would provide a second unit at cost.
Anyway, look into an AquaController or the competing Neptune system. Good luck with your legal path. I myself expect to need a new chiller in the next year or so, I guest it woun't be an AquqLogic!
Granted, this is my first post to these boards, too
. If you were truly treated that way, I doubt you will get compensation, but you are getting far better. Get the word out, and it will cost them in the end and protect someone else.BTW, I had a similar problem last November, but the other direction. I had a cheap controller fail and my chiller ran continuously over Thanksgiving weekend when I was out of town. When I returned my tank was ~60F from my standard 78F. I lost 2 fish and 2 corals and was quite upset. However, my controller was a couple of years old and I really had not planned in such an event.
My solution was to invest in an Aquacontroller II. The system overall seems much more reliable, certainly so in the event of a chiller or heater failure and it will page me. Of course, if the AC2 fails, something can still go wrong...I wish they would provide a second unit at cost
.Anyway, look into an AquaController or the competing Neptune system. Good luck with your legal path. I myself expect to need a new chiller in the next year or so, I guest it woun't be an AquqLogic!
Get an Aquacontroller--I have one and the CSL controller on my chiller for redundancy.
Come on, "SoCal Aquarist" is obviously a plant, a mole, a spy, a pry, a double agent, a scout, an undercover man, a watcher, an operative, a Mata Hari, or an owner/agent of AQL. Take your pick.
Come on, "SoCal Aquarist" is obviously a plant, a mole, a spy, a pry, a double agent, a scout, an undercover man, a watcher, an operative, a Mata Hari, or an owner/agent of AQL. Take your pick.
SKBok":4jx1fndu said:hmmm... Aqua Logic is located in San Diego. SoCalAquarist's profile says he/she is from San Diego and is a Marketing Consultant. hmmmm
my thoughts exactly. it will be interesting to see whether or not this "secret agent" comes forward... :?
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