Tang Police - Info needed

[Mouse]

Once we have finished making it taboo for the middle class to be able to keep the large marine fish, then perhaps we should set our sites on the corals themselves.

Oh i see like that is it.

but their not really keeping them, but more tortureing them, but if your poor thats ok i suppose. I mean why let money take president over the life of some stupid fish hey.

Or perhaps we should tax all the rich guys so the poor reefers can afford the tanks they have allways wanted.

that would be fair wouldn't it. :roll:

You suck man, that was the lamest arguement "against" that i have ever heard. Next youll be trying to tell me its a human RIGHT to have babys, and not a PRIVELAGE earned. :evil:

What happens if you can't afford that 300 gallon aquarium in a year or two.

It all comes down to being responsible, if you were responsible you would allready have the damn thing sitting there cycling. If you were conciencous you would have the money saved, or at least budgeted.

i dont see how anyone has a god given RIGHT to torture a fish because there lamey ass cant get a second job. :x

 

[Mouse]

:evil:

 

[Mouse]

:evil:

 

[liquid]

OK, calm down and watch the language. Mouse, this *is* your thread after all. Do you want it closed? I'm not going to allow this thread to degenerate into a flame war.

Shane

 

[Mouse]

sorry Shane, its comments like that which make poor people look bad. Id like to fly to the moon, but i cant afford it, WTF. I just cant beleave the way people think smetimes, damn freeloaders thats all that reply was, nothing about poverty at all. And besides, if you really were poor i doubt you'd even know what a marine fish was. Let alone this 20th Century Psudo-poor.

Shane, again, sorry. Ill have to watch my mouth.

 

[Mouse]

pretty thoughts, pretty thoughts.......ahhhhhhhhhh

 

[dizzy]

Mouse,

I don't think you understood my post and I would certainly never attack anyone personally over their opinions on fishkeeping. I have stated repeatly in my posts that I feel people need to upgrade their systems as their fish grow. It is also sometimes possibly to trade large angels and tangs back into LFS, but people should probably not buy them with this intention.

My point was that if you are going to start a movement against keeping large tangs, then go ahead and do the same for all fish that get big.

 

[Anonymous]

My point was that if you are going to buy a fish under the pretense of upgrading in the future. You need to be realistic. if you don't already have the upgrade or funds available, then look closely at your situation.

If you might be laid off in 6 months, then don't think, "hey in a year I'll have gotten a big raise/bonus so i'll be able to afford that 300 gallon tank." THAT IS IRRESPONSIBLE.

Hey my company just got a huge contract. I'll be working 30 hours overtime every week for the next 6 months. I'll be saving up huge amounts of money, and besides I have a few thousands of dollars saved up already. I could afford the 300 gallon now, but I'll wait and get it in 6 months. THAT IS RESPONSIBLE.

I'm sorry but I never ment to imply that hey if I can't afford the 300 gallon tank, then screw the fish.

 

[Anonymous]

You can take this article a bunch of different ways, even make it a multipart article.

1. Reasons for not having a tang in a small tank.

2. Signs that your tang is stressed do to tank size.

3. Options for people who have a tang in a small tank (could be due to bad advise).

4. Fish you can house in smaller tanks.

5. proper conditions for housing a tang

of course you can subsitute any large fish for tang

 

[oranje]

So, I currently have a hippo tang in a 45 gallon... I know, I'm the devil. However, the reason for this is a friend had to take down her tank for financial reasons, and needed a home for her lovely fish. I accepted, and have been cycling a 120 gallon tank for 3 weeks to provide it with a better home.

What's my opinion of all of this? I don't think having too small of a tank is due to lack of finances for most people, but a lack of planning and effort. When I rescued my porcupine puffer from PetCo, I knew that it was going to be BIG, but I also wasn't thinking about what I would do when this happened. He's the reason for the 120 gallon tank, and thankfully I have the resources to accommodate him, despite my poor planning.

People really should research their fish and corals before they acquire them, as otherwise it's a waste of money when they die, and more importantly a waste of a beautiful creature. The ignorance of some is astounding.

And a semi-side note, the tank that the hippo tang was in was only 55 gallons, but I regard this woman as one of the finest reefers I've ever met. She did a HUGE amount of research on the proper diets of her fish so as to meet their nutritional needs, special ordered things from around the world for them, and insists that I do the same. Although her tank may not have been large enough for these fish, a large tank in poor health is no better than a small tank for some fish. Is it better for a fish to have ich as long as it can roam around while suffering? Or is it better for a fish to be in perfect health, while not having as much space to swim? As far as I'm concerned, keeping a fish in a tank is restricting it's freedom no matter how large it is, but I do agree with the basic point - people need to think before they buy.

 

[danmhippo]

My stance on this issue is that if everyone can hold back their impulse purchases, I'd rather sacrifice a batch of tangs and let them rot in LFS. This way, those LFS will not be carrying them again and future disasters shall not happen ever.

(Wishful thinking huh?)

(We really need some serious education in all levels)

 

[SPC]

Posted by dizzy:

My point was that if you are going to start a movement against keeping large tangs, then go ahead and do the same for all fish that get big.

-Hi dizzy, just wanted to say that I agree with this point 100%. I don't feel that we should single out tangs only if we are trully interested in keeping this hobby alive. Mouse however has decided to start with tangs for whatever reason, do we tell him to stop his efforts simply because he hasen't covered all fish species?
Steve

 

[JeremyR]

FWIW, I personally am more than willing to take fish (with certain exceptions) that are healthy and have outgrown their tanks as should any quality LFS. You are right, things happen.. if you can't upgrade.. bring the fish back. Just be careful with what you are buying.. nobody is going to want a 12" undulated trigger.

 

[SPC]

Posted by oranje:

So, I currently have a hippo tang in a 45 gallon... I know, I'm the devil. However, the reason for this is a friend had to take down her tank for financial reasons, and needed a home for her lovely fish. I accepted, and have been cycling a 120 gallon tank for 3 weeks to provide it with a better home.

-I think a hippo tang can get over 18", a 120 gallon won't make much difference for this fish. He will looked cramped in this tank and it will look like cruelty to those who are trying to ban this hobby.

What's my opinion of all of this? I don't think having too small of a tank is due to lack of finances for most people, but a lack of planning and effort. When I rescued my porcupine puffer from PetCo, I knew that it was going to be BIG, but I also wasn't thinking about what I would do when this happened. He's the reason for the 120 gallon tank, and thankfully I have the resources to accommodate him, despite my poor planning.

-So you are planning to have a hippo and a porcupine puffer in a 120?

People really should research their fish and corals before they acquire them, as otherwise it's a waste of money when they die, and more importantly a waste of a beautiful creature. The ignorance of some is astounding.

-I agree.

And a semi-side note, the tank that the hippo tang was in was only 55 gallons, but I regard this woman as one of the finest reefers I've ever met. She did a HUGE amount of research on the proper diets of her fish so as to meet their nutritional needs, special ordered things from around the world for them, and insists that I do the same.

-I disagree, I think by keeping this hippo in a 55 this person had not done even the most basic research, "how big does he get"?

Although her tank may not have been large enough for these fish, a large tank in poor health is no better than a small tank for some fish.

-And why do you think it has to be either/or?

Is it better for a fish to have ich as long as it can roam around while suffering? Or is it better for a fish to be in perfect health, while not having as much space to swim?

-No, it would be better to have a fish with no ich and the room to roam around.

As far as I'm concerned, keeping a fish in a tank is restricting it's freedom no matter how large it is, but I do agree with the basic point - people need to think before they buy.

-Some fish are restricted by tank size, not all fish.
Steve

 

[liquid]

You know, I just thought of this, but Stephen Spotte's Captive Seawater Fishes: Science and Technology book would be a good one to get your hands on as well. It's an older book (approx 1977 pub date) but from what I understand, many of the more recent books reference this text. Here's an old Ebay auction w/ a pic of the book:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2033801251

Thought you might want to check it out.

Shane

 

[tanzy]

Do fish grow to a smaller size if kept in a small tank as compared to the open ocean? My ocellaris that grew up in a 2 foot tank, although now in a 4 footer, seems smaller compared to ocellaris that start off in bigger tanks. If a tang is kept in a small tank, does it grow to full wild size? If it does, then, what size of a tank is required, if it really is stunted, then is it cruel to keep it smaller?

 

[tazdevil]

Tanzy, your referring to the freshwater phenom that a few fresh species have been known to only grow to a size in accordance with the tank they live in. However, that has been, for the most part, a false pretense. Most fish will outgrow their tanks if they would live as long as they could. Example, you take a baby yellow tang, stick it in a 30 gallon tank, it lives for a year or two, then dies. You figure "well, must've been at the end of its lifespan", when nothing could be further from the truth. He died because he outgrew his surroundings. The same thing happens in freshwater (ever seen an oscar in a 10 gallon as a baby, because wal-mart told this person they could live in that size tank-guess what, a year later, it is the tank!). So in essence, no, a fish will not "conform" to its surroundings, which is why everyone flames about a tang being in a small tank (or angels etc.).

 

[dizzy]

Tanzy,

I think stunting is atrocious, but it is not as unusual as tazdevil suggests. A lot of freshfish will stunt and this includes the American gamefish bass and bluegill in overcrowded ponds. Koi (colored carp) are also easy to stunt. I have heard theories that the larger, faster growing fish can sometimes secrete chemicals (non-growth hormones) that somehow give them an advantage over their pond mates. It is nature's way of keeping the pond from becoming so overcrowded that everything dies. When conditions improve a more normal growth rate can resume.

IME saltfish will also exhibit similar traits. ( I saw a 3-year leopard shark in a 55 that was about 8" in length) I am going to repeat that I think intentional stunting is atrocious, but I do think some saltfish in captive environments might grow slower (or faster) than their wild counterparts. If a fish truly becomes stunted it will probably have a greatly reduced lifespawn compared to normal sized fish of similar age. I think you also have to factor in stuff like meeting nutritional needs and maintaining good water quality into the equation, besides just looking at the size of the tank.[/quote]

 

[Lynn]

I can't imagine having a tang or any fish for that matter for a couple years and then because I haven't researched it enough...have to sell or give it back to the LFS. You mez well flush it down the toilet. Because sure as the dickens someone will come along and buy it that has a 55!! and the LFS will tell him that thats fine!

 

[danmhippo]

Lynn, NOOOOOO, don't flush it down your toilet! It will clog your drain! 8O