Lets get this signed off (Plumbing Design)
- Thread starter King Jason
- Start date
A Quiet One pump on a 180 is undersized IMHO. I think you'd be lucky to be pushing 600 gph by the time you pump water from your sump to your tank. Typically from sump to tank you want around 10x the tank volume going thru the sump per hour, thus you probably would want a pump somewhere between 1200 and 1800 gph after frictional loss and head loss are taken into account.
Shane
Shane
I think you need more than one intake for the ampmaster on the closed loop. The suction on one intake is extreme IME. I would use 2 - 1.5" intakes and run a 3 way Y off the output and go to 6 - 1" outputs into the tank for the return on the closed loop. You would be okay with 4 - 1" returns but 6 would be great.
The only thing you need to think about on the actual return pump is dependability and if you are going to skim in the sump you would want to provide enough turnover in the sump to match whatever rate you are pumping into the skimmer. (I.E. If your skimmer is being run by a Iwaki 40RLT at 750 gph then you would want 750 gph going through your sump - 750 was just a guess on the Iwaski - for an example). One other thing to consider would be if your heaters are in your sump you would need enough turnover to levelize the temp between the display and the sump. And I don't know where you are planning on placing the skimmer in that setup, i placed my skimmer where the intake to the skimmer was not from the refugium but from the water coming from the display before it went into the refugium.
FWIW, Nathan
The only thing you need to think about on the actual return pump is dependability and if you are going to skim in the sump you would want to provide enough turnover in the sump to match whatever rate you are pumping into the skimmer. (I.E. If your skimmer is being run by a Iwaki 40RLT at 750 gph then you would want 750 gph going through your sump - 750 was just a guess on the Iwaski - for an example). One other thing to consider would be if your heaters are in your sump you would need enough turnover to levelize the temp between the display and the sump. And I don't know where you are planning on placing the skimmer in that setup, i placed my skimmer where the intake to the skimmer was not from the refugium but from the water coming from the display before it went into the refugium.
FWIW, Nathan
I see your point on the intake for the Ampmaster, that is a good idea.
Heater will be in the sump. Skimmer is questionable. I've not run a skimmer for the last 3 years and have not seen any kind of change in my tank. So I'm still debating whether or not to run a skimmer or not. However I would want to leave my options open, and in the case I need to run a skimmer I would be able to put it in the sump.
Heater will be in the sump. Skimmer is questionable. I've not run a skimmer for the last 3 years and have not seen any kind of change in my tank. So I'm still debating whether or not to run a skimmer or not. However I would want to leave my options open, and in the case I need to run a skimmer I would be able to put it in the sump.
hi.
My Majesty, keep in mind that if the inlet for the closed loop is too close to the output, you will just suck back the water you pumped out 0.1 sec ago. In a obsurd case, you can use a 1,000 gpm (sic) pump and got almost no circulation within the tank if the inlets and the outputs are right next to each other.
The position of the input and output for a closed loop is both a matter of practicality, art, and engineering.
My Majesty, keep in mind that if the inlet for the closed loop is too close to the output, you will just suck back the water you pumped out 0.1 sec ago. In a obsurd case, you can use a 1,000 gpm (sic) pump and got almost no circulation within the tank if the inlets and the outputs are right next to each other.
The position of the input and output for a closed loop is both a matter of practicality, art, and engineering.
Yeah...I know I will have to play with the direction/position of the return and keep them away from the inlets. Paint is a little tuff to draw in so I just gave it my best go! (nothing is really drawn to perspective) It would be kind of cool to use something like AutoCAD to design the tank though!
How about where the water is released back into the tank (the returns from the AmpMaster and sump pump). What have others used to spray the water in the desired direction?
I was thinking of using flexible ball-socket tubing like this:
But it's pretty expensive stuff!
How about where the water is released back into the tank (the returns from the AmpMaster and sump pump). What have others used to spray the water in the desired direction?
I was thinking of using flexible ball-socket tubing like this:
But it's pretty expensive stuff!
quick question, any particular reason for the input of the closed loop to be drilled? it would be much easier/cheaper to hav it looped up over the tank. all you have to worry about then is priming it. the same with the overflow into the sump. unless its plexi, it would be easier to plum the overflow down through the top of the first chamber.
BB
BB
beerbaron":163pg2l6 said:
How hard is it to drill a glass tank? I've never done it before, but was going to give it a shot.
beerbaron":163pg2l6 said:
Do you mean have the Inlets for the two 1 1/2" pipes for the AmpMaster intake down into the overflows?
beerbaron":163pg2l6 said:
Ok. Good idea
I'm going to modify my 1100gph closed loop on my 75rr so that it draws water from one side of the tank and then returns it to the other through multiple and/or VERY large outlets. I'm trying for high volume/low velocity flow across the length of the tank.
I was thinking of using a length of 2" pvc from the return side's top back corner to the front of the tank, with either a series of open "T"s or a whole lot of slots cut into the side of the pipe.
I was thinking of using a length of 2" pvc from the return side's top back corner to the front of the tank, with either a series of open "T"s or a whole lot of slots cut into the side of the pipe.
Concerning the flow rate through the filter...you would not believe the flow rates that algae like....just be sure a glue baffles on sump floor like an ECOSYSTEM filter. I make them about as high as the substrate is deep. For substrate by the way, I am not sure what everyone else uses but I make alot of these refugiums for my customers and I have tried different combinations. Kent-biosediment, Ecosystem-miracle mud, Carib-sea-mineral mud, or just straight aragonite sand. Well...IME, the Caribsea mineral mub and Kent biosediment perform just as well as the Ecosystems stuff at half the price, where the plain sand just does not seem to get the job done very well. Go for the Velocity T4. I agree with everyone else on everything else. Oh....if you are so concerned with sound, do you know what a Durso Drain is? Also, don't submerge your line from the tank drain. Drill 1 3/4" hole at very top (left side of your drawing), middle of your sump, put in 1" bulkhead, elbow into bulkhead and then in side sump side, elbow down, put a short length of 1"pipe and then put on one of those felt bags to give some sort of mech filt.
hi.
As I said, when the input and output is very close, the 0.1 sec (or whatever) the water jet spend in the display tank does not help the rest of the water to circulate well. So it does matter in the absurd case, which is very difficult for people to actually to implement.
As I said, when the input and output is very close, the 0.1 sec (or whatever) the water jet spend in the display tank does not help the rest of the water to circulate well. So it does matter in the absurd case, which is very difficult for people to actually to implement.
Done some reading and searching and found a decent price on a diamond core drill bit.
Here is the site: http://www.shopsmartxpress.com/AmeriGls/W9.htm Will cost me $50.20 to get it in my hands.
For a 1.5" bulkhead I drill a 1.75" hole? Correct?
My other option is to get a glass shop to drill the holes. If anyone knows of a glass shop in Southern CA that will come to my house (can't trek around a 180g tank too easy) let me know. Otherwise I will check yellow pages. Once I have a quote from a glass shop I'll compare prices and see who wins.
Here is the site: http://www.shopsmartxpress.com/AmeriGls/W9.htm Will cost me $50.20 to get it in my hands.
For a 1.5" bulkhead I drill a 1.75" hole? Correct?
My other option is to get a glass shop to drill the holes. If anyone knows of a glass shop in Southern CA that will come to my house (can't trek around a 180g tank too easy) let me know. Otherwise I will check yellow pages. Once I have a quote from a glass shop I'll compare prices and see who wins.
Here's my 2 cents.
The 2 inputs for th AM is a good idea, but not a necessity, I'm doing it with one intake, but think about the large strainers, not the smaller ones (available at www.aquaticeco.com)
But if you are drilling the intakes, then drill 2 for now, you can always add a second closed loop then.
I would also change the last baffles around on your sump, the two right before the return pump. The way you have it, you only have a small amount of water for the pump to draw from, might cause the level to get low and the pump to suck air (trust me, I did this the first time as well, had to get a dremel to make a slot at the bottom). If you have the last baffle with a space at the bottom, then you have more water to draw from, also you won't have to worry about the substrate or macroalgae getting sucked through that other opening
that's my 2 cents, but that's canadian, really only about 1.2 cents US
The 2 inputs for th AM is a good idea, but not a necessity, I'm doing it with one intake, but think about the large strainers, not the smaller ones (available at www.aquaticeco.com)
But if you are drilling the intakes, then drill 2 for now, you can always add a second closed loop then.
I would also change the last baffles around on your sump, the two right before the return pump. The way you have it, you only have a small amount of water for the pump to draw from, might cause the level to get low and the pump to suck air (trust me, I did this the first time as well, had to get a dremel to make a slot at the bottom). If you have the last baffle with a space at the bottom, then you have more water to draw from, also you won't have to worry about the substrate or macroalgae getting sucked through that other opening
that's my 2 cents, but that's canadian, really only about 1.2 cents US
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