help me please help me i am so frustraited

[reefsRcool]

i have been trying to make the switch to full reef from fowlr and have had ZERO!!! success keeping even the simplist of corals. i go to a reputable fish store(you guys all know tom at inland reef) and when i bring in some water for him to test he tells me i am fine. nothing wrong witht the water. i use giesemann halides so it's not a lack of lighting either yet everything dies and quickly too! my most recent hunch was that it was a temperature fluctuation issue and added more heaters so that it wouldn't do that now it only swings from 78 to 80. aparently though that wasn't it either.

tonight i decided to try adding a leather coral again and am so damn frustraited because it's doing the same thing, i put it in the tank(after acclimation) and it kinda curled up around itself. the last one did that then kept pulling into itself until it was a half inch little stump it did this in a matter of two days. something is desperatly wrong and it isn't showing up in water testing. i am running carbon, i have two polyfilters i have changed 200gallons of water in the last mounth and a half (it's a 75) my rodi unit checks out good with a TDS meter i am just stumped. i have never used copper or any other medications in this tank ever. i just don't get it.

don't know if one has to do with the other but something that is happening in this tank that never happened when i had my 55 is my live rock gets fuzzy. i put a southdown deep sand bed in this tank when i set it up 4 mounths ago and for a long time i figured it was small particles of sand settling and i kept blowing the rocks clean but now i am not so sure. it isn't just a dust i don't think. it is... well fuzzy is the best word i can come up with. it will blow of to some extent but it gets back as it was pretty quick. i am not an idiot please don't treat me as i am in your responses. i feel horrible this is the fourth coral i have wasted and noone can tell me why. I know enough to know i don't know enough here. I know patience is a virtue but i have been trying for six mounths now and everytime i plunk down $50 i kill it as soon as it hits the tank. i would just trash my setup and start fresh but i am a poor man i need to make this work or i have to go without. i am miserable please help me.

 

[reefsRcool]

tell you what whomever can figure this one out i'll send you a gift certificate from inland reef so you can order up some drygoods for yourself as a little reward. yes i am that desperate.

 

[Philippe Dor]

You do seem to have a real problem, but without knowing more about your tank it is very difficult to advise you.
First do you have anything alive in your tank, fish, hermits, snails, live rock, ??? if not you have an oxygen deficiency or some kind of poisoning.
Second what do you mean by something fuzzy on the rock coming back even after you blow it away, is it some kind of greyish/white layer or film? if so, your live rock is off because of lack of oxygen in your tank or some previous wrong handling.
Like I said, just tell us more, especially about what kind of filter system you are using???
One very simple solution that could help, is to place a small powerhead anywhere in your tank (1000lt/hr) and have the water return from just above the water level at 45 degree angle, just try that first and if the cause of your problems is what I think it is, you should see an improvement within a day or two. This very simple method has saved many problem tanks when I was doing my maintenance business.
You definetly need help, and I'm sure anybody will be glad to advise you for free. PhilDor. (ezyreef)

 

[reefsRcool]

it is a 75 gallon with the overflow running into a tee. some goes into a 15 gallon refugium then the sump the rest goes through a turboflotor100 skimmer. i am also running a canister filter with carbon and a polyfilter.

both refugium and main tank have southdown sand 8"in fuge 3.5-4 in main. live rock is mostly gulf of mexico but there is some figi and tanga too. about 80# total

lighing is giesemann nova II pendents DE150 watt halides 10000k

fish are all heathy
snails are doing there thing
crabs are good too
serpent star is serpenting
bristle worms are all bristling
fighting conch has noone to fight with but he's a lookin'
and i am getting sloppy tired i'll try to get back to the facts
pods are everywhere in the refugium not all that visible in the main.
macro is growing like a weed in the refugium
algee in the main tank is not to bad, just a light film on glass every week i run a magnet over it good as new.

as far as oxigination wouldn't the skimer put enough into suspension? don't tell me i have to get one of those bubbling diver deals and all my problems are solved :roll:

thanks

 

[wombat1]

That's very baffling. It's strange that all those other inverts are doing fine if your corals are dying so fast. How did you acclimate them?? Also can you give us your exact tank params, rather than saying they're OK?? I think the oxygen should be fine, with an overflow and skimmer there's plenty gas exchange. Stirring up your surface will definitely help that though if there is a problem. Sorry I know this isn't much help. Matt

 

[WWiley]

Aren't polyfilters and leathers a no no. How many gph are moving through the tank. WW

 

[reefsRcool]

this was the most recent water test done last week by scott at inland reef
he also tested my rodi and it was 14ppm no wi was under the impression that anything over one you should replace the cartrages, but was told that it is still 99.999999999 precent pure water and not to worry to much it isn't the cause of my woes

salinity 1.025
ph8.3
alkalinity 3.12
ammonia 0.0
nitrite 0.1
nitrate 10
calcium 392
phosphate 0.1


as far as acclimation i floated the bag for a half an hour to get the temp then introduce tank water a little at a time over another fourty five minutes.

 

[reefsRcool]

i have not heard anything about poly filters and leathers? was told to use a poly incase there was some toxic matter int he water that couldn;'t be tested for it would pull it out. the poly filter by the way didn't turn any of the indicator colors so i don't know what if anything it did.

 

[reefsRcool]

the poly filter was added after the third loss about four weeks ago anyway so it may be contributing now, but it's not the root problem.

 

[Emmitt]

tonight i decided to try adding a leather coral again and am so damn frustraited because it's doing the same thing, i put it in the tank(after acclimation) and it kinda curled up around itself. the last one did that then kept pulling into itself until it was a half inch little stump it did this in a matter of two days.

Give the leather a couple weeks before you give up on it. Maybe you've done this before and didn't say, but some soft corals can take quite awhile to acclimate themselves to their new enviroment. Not saying they all will, just that they CAN take awhile.

Good luck

 

[reefsRcool]

no dude i don't think you are grasping the severity of what is happening

i get a beutifull four or five inch tall green tree or a nice finger leather and in a days time it shrivles up to something the size of an eraser on a pencil. we're not talking a lack of polip extension here. picture what would happen to mr happy if you jumped into a frozed lake. that's it
i have lost softies i have lost three types of polyps. hell i am having trouble with my mushrooms.

 

[Minh Nguyen]

Do a huge water change 75% or more, two or three time, then try again. The toxin is in the water Most of it is not testable. Dilute it. You can also do a 100% water change X1.
Minh

 

[plankton123]

reefsRcool,

Get rid of equipment you don't need:

- canister with carbon; don't need it.

- polyfilters; don't need it and the chelators they use could irritate leathers (aluminum, etc)

Try another soft coral like a colt or a mushroom and see if they make it.

PS is your alk reading in meq/l? Phosphate and nitrite are measurable which is very strange for a reef tank unless you are feeding the tank like crazy or there is something dying in your live rook or something that you are unaware of.

PPS Try measuring copper (cu) just on the off chance that you are experience said poisoning.

PPPS Can you post a pic of your tank and leather coral?

Scott

 

[reefsRcool]

i have a 35 gallon rubbermaid tub i use for makup water. i did 6 of those over a five week span havn't changed water last three weeks at all) i have got to think i got most of it out.

i am actually wondering about the live rock. this rock was in my old 55 and though i never put and medications in it i was not using ro at the time because i was new and stupid. what are the chances something from back then stayed in the rock and is leaching?

another thing i doubt is it but will toss out there anyway is i smoke and even though i am careful not to put my hands in the tank after sucking on a cancer stick i wonder how much of that crap has settled into the tank from the air?

 

[plankton123]

reefsRcool,

The aluminum based stuff used in some products (like phosguard and polyfilter) can and do bother leather corals. However, usually they just don't exend their polyps and slime alot (that waxy build up that keeps slogging off the coral). They normally don't shrivel to a dime like you have observed. Yup, something is going on in your tank but you don't want to complicate matters by using those products.

Again, if you could attach a recent photo of your tank (including deep sand bed and refug) that would help alot.


Scott

 

[plankton123]

Have you ever used copper treatments for a sick fish? Either in your old 55 gallon tank or new one? Regarding smoke fumes...no clue. But, washing your hands before and after touching your reef tank is a good idea. Just remember to rinse well since soap would be even worse than a little nicotine or tar in the water.

Scott

 

[reefsRcool]

all it says for alk is meq don't know if it's per liter or gallon

the chart they print lists acceptable rang from 2.4 to 5.0 if that means anything to you

to be honset water testing is not my strongest deal. that's why every week or so i put some in a tupperware and bring it to the LFS. they give free water tests, a nice printout so why not eh?

 

[reefsRcool]

i don't have a digital camera, it's on the to get list but it just hasn't happened yet. is there something in the sandbed i could take a shot at discribing for you? what was your thought?

 

[plankton123]

only that if you said you had really big black areas in your DSB and whenever a big bubble broke the sand surface fish swam to the far corners of the tank. 8O

Do you have fish and feed then often? Still wondering about the measurable nitrite and phosphate levels.

Check behind your rock, etc for lost fish, etc that might be decaying and polluting your water.

PS I lost a whole bunch of xenia once by accidentally adding copper to my tank (but that's another story).

 

[Anonymous]

Just another thought is to watch the tank after the lights are off for any nocturnal predators that could be munching on the corals. I could not keep Cladellia sp. for the longest time (they would seemingly desinigrate within a couple of days) although everything else did great. One night I noticed several nudi's that feed primarily on this coral. Could be a predator you are not aware of. Just to throw out another option. Hope you find the cause.

Oh and one the smoking thing, I don't smoke in my house, but I have stuck my hands in the tank without washing them on a forgetful occasion and have not noticed any different reactions from when I did wash them.