Help me with STN soon to be RTN in a Monitpora cap. W/ PICS

[Ben1]

My 2 1/2 year old son turned on my dosing pump last night before coming up stairs for bed. When I came down my tank was a white wonder land. I couldnt see 1" in the tank. My dosing pump liter meter was set to dose continously and didnt have the float switch on it. It runs through a kalkreactor which happen to be stirring during the time. SO in short my 75 gallon tank got ruffly a 5 gallon super kalk dose. I did an immediate 15 gallon water change, caught 3 of my 4 fish that were swimming around side ways and crashing in the glass. The wrasse I could find,and died. The other three I put n one of my other tanks untill today, they are fine.

I then lit a white tea candle put it in a large bowl, suspended a large airpump above it and pumped the air to the return pump in my sump causing it to blow tons of tiny bubbles to the tank. The idea was the CO2 from the candle would help increase the CO2 in the bowl where the pump was pulling the air from. The CO2 enriched air would help reduce the PH of the water. I figured if some toxins from the candle were released I was already screwed anyway so what the hell.

Do you think I responded to the situation the best I could????

All my SPS are generally fine today considering. The Acropora next to this Monti let out TONS and TONS of slime but seems to be ok today just stressed looking. My wife said in the morning this monti had a ball of slime in it. Now its starting to shed tissue. Is there anything I can do or am I going to lose it? I hope not beacuse I grew this over the last few years from a 1" square, it came from RichK who got it from SanJay Joshi who got it from Steve Tyree so losing it would be a real shame to me.

Hoefully some ones got some good advice. Heres the pictures.

 

[turtlespd]

It seems you have everything under control. I would test my water and do water changes accordingly untill i have gotten my paremerters somewhere near where you need them at. I think what you are doing helps now but i dont think its enough. I would keep with the water changes and would do 50% if i have to. Most acros if have been in a stable enviroment for sometime will make it through this little mishap. Trust me i have had the same thing if not worst happen to me. Good luck

Paul

 

[texman]

I would take a few frags of healthy tissue off the montipora just in case. If the main colony dies, at least you can say that it's children are living on.

 

[Ben1]

I wouldnt want to cause additional stress to the coral. I have a very small frag of it in my other tank already, but it would takes years for it to get this size again. If I didnt already have a frag I would frag it though. Is there anything I can do? I am preping a new water change now, and Keep cleaning all the sponges and skimmer. I noticed one of my Purple tipped A> Validas is also shedding tissue, boy cant wait to see the mess tomorrow.

 

[wildbill]

I feel bad for you. Its tough to tell what should be done. But if it were me I'd probable be doing a 5 gal change every 3 days til things settled down. I'd run carbon and replace it everyweek, and I'd clean my skimmer completely. Doing a large water change will only throw off things.

Bill

 

[wade1]

Fragging really doesn't cause additional stress to the coral. It will help to save it though.

Are you positive its due to the dosing pump? The pattern of deterioration looks a great deal like that left by montipora specific nudibranchs when they feed.... have you added anything new to the tank recently?

Wade

 

[Ben1]

Why would fragging not cause additional stress to the coral? It seems to me any injury would cause some additional stress.

The dosing pump pumps through a kalkreactor, (nielson reactor) which was stirring when the pump was turned on, atleast 5 gallons of kalk was added to the tank, I couldnt see 1" in the tank, before this the coral was very healthy and nothing new was added. As of today one side of my giant Pavona is shedding slightly. Ive lost 50% of my A Valida and a little more tissue of the Montipora. Everything else looks a little better. I did do a 10 gallon change today and plan on anouther in a few days.

Ive got frags of most of these in my other tanks and have traded all of these with many reefers and am sure I can get frags of them back. Otherwise fragging it out would have been done already.

 

[Nelliereefster]

In the future, a controlled white vinager add, will produce a much safer result.

 

[Ben1]

I know vinager will prevent Kalk thats mixed with surface air from turning into useless calcium carbanate but how does it make it any safer. I dont think mixing kalk with vinager allows you to add what ever amount you want at any speed. This 5 gallons went in in a very fast time period. The PH of kalk is still 12 no matter hows its mixed but I use a nielson reactor to dose my kalk so the bingman method doesnt apply.

Unless you are referring to the candle thing, does white vinager lower PH and how much would I add to reduce PH?Thanks for the advice I didnt know that if this is what you are talking about.

 

[wade1]

As for white vinegar, it is acetic acid, so yes indeed it will lower pH. How much depends on how much you add and how much excess undissolved kalk is in the container. It won't be a viable option to reduce pH in general though.

As to not stressing corals, perhaps I didn't clarify. It will add some stress to those polyps/cells in immediate contact with the breakage point. However, the breakage initiates a change that causes immediate growth and reduces energy expenditure on growing branches. Place an acro frag on its side and note timing... it will always base for a long time before branching. Same mechanism. So yes, it might cause stress, however fragging in a clean zone should mean that the stress isn't additional its new to that area. Dead zones are usually due to infection, and since corals are colonial and not an entire animal, the stress from a localized infection (such as RTN) isn't necessarily throughout. (But then again, no one really knows)

That help?

 

[wildbill]

Ben,

I agree with Wade, if your gonna lose the whole coral its deffinitly better to frag it. The stress that is caused is minimal if its done quickly and a cleanly as possible. Are you doing any water changes? Did you decide to do any if so what size?

Bill

 

[Ben1]

Yes I did a 10 gallon change today and plan on doing anoughter day after tomorrow.

Wade that is good information. I did not realize that fragging would only cause localized stess and not stress to the whole colony. When you say "causes immediate growth and reduces energy expenditure on growing branches" does this mean it puts its energy into the growth of a base instead of branchs, thus helping regrow the damaged dead area?

What do you think about superglueing the perimeter of the damaged area sealling it from further infection, would this work?

 

[wildbill]

I wonder how deep would the superglue penetrate. Because this unsure is why I've always frag'd.

Bill

 

[wade1]

When you say "causes immediate growth and reduces energy expenditure on growing branches" does this mean it puts its energy into the growth of a base instead of branchs, thus helping regrow the damaged dead area?

I was referring mainly to branching type sps there, sorry. In the case of capricornus and other plating corals, they always grow in an outward pattern, regardless of where they have been fragged (they also grow onto substrate, although much much reduced compared to expanding) so its not really as relevant. But, the fragged/growing edge usually shifts its physiology and extends its gut filaments to clear the immediate area and begins growing back very quickly.

Has the destruction gotten any worse? Is it still in irregular splotches?

I wonder how deep would the superglue penetrate. Because this unsure is why I've always frag'd.

I have used superglue to stop RTN infections before and it has worked well, the only caveat is that you MUST cover over a good size perimeter of the live/healthy coral tissue. If you miss any, the infection will continue. The reason it works is that the infection is in the superficial tissue, not down into the cavity with the polyps in general. Fragging works just about as well unless its a small piece or frag itself.

Wade

 

[Ben1]

It appears the same today as far as tissue loss has gone, yet doesnt seem to want to expand its polyps much only about 50%.

To its left is my A. Valida which it 50% lost and also seems the tissue loss has stopped on. To is right my large thich branching Acro has gotton much worse and tissue appears to be pealing away along the bottom. This one I should frag apart. Above tha coral my Pavona is also looking stressed not expanding its polyps and lost some speratic tissue. My other Yellow Montipora, plating coral has some big quarter sized spots where it bleached out but doesnt appear to be shedding tissue.

That about sums it up. Alls I know is this really sucks to watch all these years of growth go down the drain.