Help requested with cyano outbreak

[PatrickM98]

Hi everyone,

I started a new tank about four months ago (30L), filled with a 4" sand bed and 35# of uncured live rock. The live rock has gone through the curing process, and currently my ammonia, nitrite, nitrite, and phosphate levels are at zero. I tested my water using my home kits, along with the kits at the LFS just to be sure that the readings were correct. There is currently nothing in the tank except for the sand and the LR, and I have done two 50% water changes and 6 20% water changes over the past four months. Also, I get my water from the RO/DI unit at the LFS that they use to fill their tanks (which have no algae problems).

My problem now is a very unsightly cyano outbreak on the LR, substrate, and walls. I am only leaving the lights on about four hours a day, but that still seems to be enough to cause a great deal of algae to form. Does anyone have any suggestions about what to do or get in an attempt to get rid of the algae? Should I try to clean it off of the rocks and mix up the substrate? Thanks.

Also, I noticed some very fine light brown powder in the tank (I am assuming this is probably dead algae from keeping the lights off for a while). Should I attempt to remove this, or is it fine to leave in the tank since nutrient levels aren't detectable? Thanks everyone.

 

[Lynn]

Sorry I can't help you out, I'm in the same boat! My tank is 4 1/2 months old too and has this pinkish red coating all over the gravel. I think this is cyano? I think, from what I've read it just has to run its course. I think I'd try to remove any floating stuff but don't stir up the substrate.
Hopefully we'll get more info on this.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

I started a new tank about four months ago (30L), filled with a 4" sand bed and 35# of uncured live rock. The live rock has gone through the curing process, and currently my ammonia, nitrite, nitrite, and phosphate levels are at zero. I tested my water using my home kits, along with the kits at the LFS just to be sure that the readings were correct. There is currently nothing in the tank except for the sand and the LR, and I have done two 50% water changes and 6 20% water changes over the past four months. Also, I get my water from the RO/DI unit at the LFS that they use to fill their tanks (which have no algae problems).

zero test levels do not equate to zero production-your system is still producing PO4,NO3,etc.-the algaes,diatoms,and cyano are just absorbing it too quickly for it to build up to a detectable level in the water column.

(the die off during the curing process produced nutrients-feeding micro organisms,and other critters on/in the rock/sand-these are also continually producing waste, reproducing, and dying off,producing waste,feeding micro organisms...get the idea? :wink: )these are still at high enough levels to feed the cyanos, etc., but eventually,will come down if you stay on the right track.


My problem now is a very unsightly cyano outbreak on the LR, substrate, and walls. I am only leaving the lights on about four hours a day, but that still seems to be enough to cause a great deal of algae to form.

it may be the type and intensity of the light,not the photoperiod,that's the contributing factor here-what kind of light, and at what wattage are you using?

Does anyone have any suggestions about what to do or get in an attempt to get rid of the algae? Should I try to clean it off of the rocks and mix up the substrate? Thanks.

manually remove as much as you can without disturbing the sand bed too much-you want the sand bed to develop as healthily as possible, disturbing it alot may interfere-increase the circulation in the tank-you may also want to add a PO4 sponge, or use kalk to precipitate the PO4- skimming will also help-what type of skimmer are you using?

Also, I noticed some very fine light brown powder in the tank (I am assuming this is probably dead algae from keeping the lights off for a while). Should I attempt to remove this, or is it fine to leave in the tank since nutrient levels aren't detectable? Thanks everyone.

sounds like diatom bloom-both the cyano and diatom bloom are part of the developing new tank cycle-keep removing as much as you can-they can also aid the buildup of the nutrients you're trying to get rid of-removing them will export those nutrients out of the system.keep plugging away,be patient, and things should work out, given time-increasing the circulation,skimming,proper lighting, and removal of the bacteria/algae will all work together to solve the problem.

remember the adage:good things happen slowly,bad things happen quickly-in a reef tank.

good luck and keep us posted-more details of your system, please.

 

[ChrisRD]

PatrickM98/Lynn:

You received some good advice from Vitz. Also, Cerith snails eat diatoms and red-slime algae. Mexican (or Baja) Red-Leg hermits do also, but you may not want crabs in your system.

Please note, these creatures won't solve the problem (see Vitz's post above), but they can help get it under control and keep little spots in check that may form from time to time down the road.

HTH.

 

[newkie]

Welcome to the slimey world of cyanobacteria. A cleanup crew will help, but you must go to the root of the problem. The things to look at with this plague are nitrates, silicates, and phosphates. If you're nitrates are >=10ppm you might ask yourself "why?". Is your skimmer up to the task, are you feeding too much, time for a water change, do you need to beef up your cleanup crew, maybe macroalgae for nutrient export, would your tank benefit from a dsb? Next your water, is this tap water or purified? If tap test it! Does it have nitrates, phosphates, or silicates? Probably. Cyano forced me to purchase an RO/DI unit. With no incoming phosphates or silicates the building blocks are essentially missing and with no nitrates the nutrients are gone as well. Lastly, this topic is very well documented. Search threads here and read up about them in your books. HTH

 

[goldenboy]

sounds like diatom bloom-both the cyano and diatom bloom are part of the developing new tank cycle-keep removing as much as you can-they can also aid the buildup of the nutrients you're trying to get rid of-removing them will export those nutrients out of the system.keep plugging away,be patient, and things should work out, given time-increasing the circulation,skimming,proper lighting, and removal of the bacteria/algae will all work together to solve the problem.

remember the adage:good things happen slowly,bad things happen quickly-in a reef tank.

good luck and keep us posted-more details of your system, please.

I gave that exact same advise on another board and was practically boo'ed out of the place. But I still have to agree with you Vits. It has been my experience with all of my systems that if you just keep up with good maintenance and wait it out the bloom will go away. I am currently going through that same problem in my new 40 g reef and it is now beginning to go away.

 

[Anonymous]

goldenboy wrote:

I gave that exact same advise on another board and was practically boo'ed out of the place.

that board doesn't deserve a sensible person such as yourself :wink:

 

[ReefLion]

I second Vitz's advice. My only suggestion would be perhaps to extend the photoperiod to a regular 12-hour day. It sounds like you set your tank up well, and that this will be a temporary problem. *Assuming you plan to pull the cyano out*, you may as well up the photoperiod and have it grow faster. Look at the cyano as a nutrient export mechanism. The more you grow (and remove), the faster you get whatever is feeding it out of your system. Normally I would not recommend this, but it sounds like there's nothing in your tank that would be adversely affected by additional cyano growth at this time. This is the only time your tank will be empty, so you may as well use it to your advantage.

At the same time, if the problem lasts more than a month or so, then you need to start considering some other systematic issues. It sounds like that is unlikely in your case, given the set-up and the absence of any livestock.

 

[Pit Bull]

What about water quality? Do you use tap water or filtered water of RO/DI? With all the water changes if your water quality is low every time you do a water change you add more phosphates and stuff that isn't usefull. When i was cycling my tank i only did 2 major water changes in 2 months but i had just liverock and sand. I just let the algae run its course.

 

[Nelliereefster]

There's a product called "Red Slime Remover" a powder that comes in a little plastic jar. If you use a bout 1/5th the recommended dosage, you should see great results, with no perceiveable consequences to other critters.

I know, I know, chemicals=bad. Just try it (a little bit)

 

[Anonymous]

Nelliereefster-

i beg to differ-mainly because of the philosophy of the approach.the product(which doesn't always work, btw)deals with treating a symptom, and not the problem-as long as the causal conditions are still existant-it's most likely the cyano,or some other 'nuisance' organism, will still come back.

killing the cyano will only rerelease the nutrients it has absorbed back into the water column, to feed more cyano, or other oppurtunist, like hair algae, etc.

also-you run the risk of the cyano coming back resistant to the product.(the only effective 'treatment' is antibiotic-which is what this product probably is, and it may very well impact on the system-and cyano can also come back resistant after using a pure antibiotic treatment, like emycin)

imho-products like this are of the 'quick fix' type-my personal experience says they, in the long run, are neither quick, nor a fix.their breakdown in the tank will also likely increase the level of PO4, starting the circle all over again.

it is always wiser to treat the cause, in order to eliminate the symptom. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

You can't add something and end up with less. You must subtract. :wink:

 

[goldenboy]

that board doesn't deserve a sensible person such as yourself :wink:

Thanks!!!

 

[Nelliereefster]

Vitz,
I agree, adding antibiotics is rarely a great way to increase stability. But.... I've used this product many times over many years, and I have yet to notice a "flashback" after breakdown of the cyano, or a bloom of hair. Granted I follow a pretty anal protocol when I use it:

First, I add only about 1/5 to 1/10 the recommended dosage, let it circulate for about 1/2 a day then do about a 50% water change, that's right, about a 50% water change.

Some critters, like sponges, squirts, and other filter feeders seem to take a momentary step back when I use it, but they always snap back.

It certainly isn't the panecea of film/dino algae control, but it has worked for me in small doses.

I usually use it only when I cannot siphon out the lion's share of the algae. It's a secondary control measure that in my experience, has been pretty effective.

I wonder what it is chemically, and you make a good point. Stupid to add an unknown, or at least risky...

Nellie :roll: :roll:

 

[SPC]

Posted by Nellie:

First, I add only about 1/5 to 1/10 the recommended dosage,

-What criteria did you use to come up with this?
Steve

 

[Marcosreef]

Higher pH, (dosing limewater), cutting back on quantity of feedings, RO/DI water (was using TWP), and better skimming helped me with my cyano problems.

Marco

 

[Anonymous]

There's a product called "Red Slime Remover" a powder that comes in a little plastic jar. If you use a bout 1/5th the recommended dosage,

one should never vary from recommended dosage when using what is probably an antibiotic-it's the easiest way to create resistance to the antibiotic.if it's not an antibiotic(maybe a metabolic pathway inhibitor-for example)still not wise-dosages are recommended for a reason!

you should see great results, with no perceiveable consequences to other critters.

perceiveable to whom? i assure you-the critters percieve it easily! YOU may not!

I know, I know, chemicals=bad. Just try it (a little bit)

so you acknowledge the possible risk/negative and then recommend to 'just try it?!'-very dangerous way of thinking-imho.


i remember when 'red slime remover' first came out on the market-seemed like a 'hit or miss' result with my customers-proper management and husbandry works 100% of the time-if you just give the time...

Some critters, like sponges, squirts, and other filter feeders seem to take a momentary step back when I use it, but they always snap back.

(now you seem to contradict the 'perceiveability' statement you made earlier?)

what if they don't-are you willing to guarantee that this will be the case with PatrickM98's situation?

i'm willing to stake my 20+ yrs. experience as a s.w. hobbyist/proffessional that 'my' method will work 100% of the time, in 100% of the very varied environs represented in all hobbyists tanks-i.e.- treat the cause, and the symptom will dissapear-the only 'trick' is in identifying the true cause, and applying the proper method for it's elimination
(btw-this is true for most, if not all, problems, in general :wink: )

no flaming intended- but your logic is nonexistant-and your recommendation method is dangerous, for you assume a level of being able to solve compounded situations by those you give the advice to, that may not be there...

 

[Nelliereefster]

yadda yadda yadda

 

[Lynn]

You make more then total sense to me Vitz

 

[JeffK]

PatrickM98,
When my 75-gallon reef went through this, I found it helpful to increase water movement by adding a powerhead. Also, prior to each weekly water change, I would gently dislodge as much of the cyano as possible with a turkey baster and siphon out the free-floating stuff. Eventually, the cyano bloom dissipated and hasn't returned since.
Best of luck!