Fish eater!
- Thread starter _range_
- Start date
range,
I find the story about the lfs steeping on the stars to be hard to believe. In 18-years of selling live rock and marine animals, I do not recall ever finding a fish eating star on live rock. Live rock is shipped dry and large stars do not survive well out of water. If the star is a killer then you will probably post a picture of O. incrassata. These stars are usually sold and not stepped on.
MG
I find the story about the lfs steeping on the stars to be hard to believe. In 18-years of selling live rock and marine animals, I do not recall ever finding a fish eating star on live rock. Live rock is shipped dry and large stars do not survive well out of water. If the star is a killer then you will probably post a picture of O. incrassata. These stars are usually sold and not stepped on.
MG
Posted by range:
-Yea I know what you mean here. About a month ago I purchased a pc of Fla LR from the LFS. The owner took the rock to weigh and bag it, by the time I had caught up to him he had pulled a nice big Chiton off the rock and stepped on it. I told him from now on don't remove anything from the rock that I purchase and explained to him why I like Chitons in my tank. When I asked him why he did this, he said that they are bad, they eat coraline algae
.
BTW, he had another rock that had a small live octopus in it.
Steve
-Yea I know what you mean here. About a month ago I purchased a pc of Fla LR from the LFS. The owner took the rock to weigh and bag it, by the time I had caught up to him he had pulled a nice big Chiton off the rock and stepped on it. I told him from now on don't remove anything from the rock that I purchase and explained to him why I like Chitons in my tank. When I asked him why he did this, he said that they are bad, they eat coraline algae
.BTW, he had another rock that had a small live octopus in it.
Steve
_range_
If that's the normalpractice of your LFS, maybe it's time to change? Trying to educate some LFS from information gained from a BB is often touchty - many don't trust us and think we're spreading misinformation [as well as cutting into profits]. There's an irony there I'm just going to avoid for now :wink: Try talking to them about their practice, offer alternatives such as others have mentioned. If they listen, great - if not, you've done what you can and move on. There are wonderful and responsible LFS out there - fortunate to have one in my area [who would never think of destroying an animal]. Look for them, or if there just are none around, do more of your shopping on line. You'll get plenty of input here about that as well.
Welcome to the hobby, and keep posting. thanks for checking here first before sending your star to an almost certain death.
Ophi - you may not remember this, but a year or so ago we traded posts on the characteristics of these incredible creatures. I'm still amazed at what you conveyed about their ability to coordinate movement with no true CNS! 8O You also posted some killer deep ocean links. I guess I'm saying your passion is understandable and may be more helpful to the rest of us than we realize. As to tone, well, it is an online BB. We have to look past that sort of thing, no? I understand Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neal actually had a pretty good relationship outside of politics :wink:
regards to all,
-rw
If that's the normalpractice of your LFS, maybe it's time to change?
Trying to educate some LFS from information gained from a BB is often touchty - many don't trust us and think we're spreading misinformation [as well as cutting into profits]. There's an irony there I'm just going to avoid for now :wink: Try talking to them about their practice, offer alternatives such as others have mentioned. If they listen, great - if not, you've done what you can and move on. There are wonderful and responsible LFS out there - fortunate to have one in my area [who would never think of destroying an animal]. Look for them, or if there just are none around, do more of your shopping on line. You'll get plenty of input here about that as well. Welcome to the hobby, and keep posting. thanks for checking here first before sending your star to an almost certain death.
Ophi - you may not remember this, but a year or so ago we traded posts on the characteristics of these incredible creatures. I'm still amazed at what you conveyed about their ability to coordinate movement with no true CNS! 8O You also posted some killer deep ocean links. I guess I'm saying your passion is understandable and may be more helpful to the rest of us than we realize. As to tone, well, it is an online BB. We have to look past that sort of thing, no? I understand Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neal actually had a pretty good relationship outside of politics :wink:
regards to all,
-rw
This story is getting out of hand. Range said the liverock was in the dealer tank and not dry. If this killer star is the dreaded O. incrassata that I believe it is, it probably did not a hitchhiker in on the live rock. It was probably purchased to be resold.
Now here is the question that bothers me. Why would someone buy a starfish, put it in with the live rock, let it go for free with the live rock, and then step on it when it was traded back in? If someone is that stupid you guys don't have to badmouth them, economics will get them. Hurry up and post that picture, range. I am including a picture of a large (yellow morph) O. incrassata, which is generally the only know member of the fish killing club.
MG
Now here is the question that bothers me. Why would someone buy a starfish, put it in with the live rock, let it go for free with the live rock, and then step on it when it was traded back in? If someone is that stupid you guys don't have to badmouth them, economics will get them. Hurry up and post that picture, range. I am including a picture of a large (yellow morph) O. incrassata, which is generally the only know member of the fish killing club.
MG
Attachments
Bowser- no offense, but you are one of those people if you keep animals in your tank. Almost all animals we keep in our tanks live a fraction of what their lifespan would be in nature. We keep them there knowing that they will die prematurely for our own enjoyment. This is no different from someone who hunts for their enjoyment or eats steak for their enjoyment or even steps on a brittlestar for their enjoyment.
I believe in giving your animals the best care you can, but I am in no position to take any moral high ground and neither are you or Ophiuroid. Just my opinion.
I am sorry, _range_ (and some others), but I don't really feel this post was much of a flame. There was legit basis for my anger. The unwarranted and potentially inhumane killing of an animal is not a matter of differing opinions and, as far as I am concerned, calls for quick and sometimes heated response. I'll do it again should the need arise.
I would also recommend a new LFS. The one you visit has rather strange practices. 8O I think taking that star back to any other LFS will get you a few bucks in credit.
Here we have an animal that does not even to have appeared to have done anything, but merely has a reputation!
Yes, I am well aware of the literature and while I thank you for looking it up (which few would have done), I do not need to see it. I am familiar with the scientific works upon which it is based.
And I am glad there are now answers to the questions that were asked. Now we can indeed argue some points and educate.
OK, for a start, and for my blood pressure, a post saying "my LFS gave me this brittlestar in a piece of LR and he said it is a fish eater, anyone have experience with this and should I give it back" would not have caused anywhere near the problems that this has.
So I'll happily chalk this one up to a learning experience, and offer my apologies as promised.
However, I will also say that I am glad that I acted as I did, because now you know there are sensitive issues in the hobby. If this is the case, then my reaction has resulted in some good. If it was a flame, well, it was the first productive flame I've seen. Flames are usually, by definition, not productive exchanges.
I spend an extraordinary amount of time on a number of message boards, and obviously would be dead if I got as worked up as I did in this one. Usually I only have a few of these blood boiling one's a week! And often it is due to the inability to debate a point as easily and clearly as one would in person, though the intent may be just as good. I am still very much an academic. I do hope that people believe I am trying to educate, but if that is not the case, well, so be it I guess.
FWI, yes, the green brittlestar Ophiarachna incrassata is a known predator in the wild, and is the species I alluded to earlier. A quick search on any reef board or google will give you lots of info on it. However, many people report having no problems with this animal at all, including myself. Its mere existence does not warrant its death. The key is to definitely keep them fed, and to keep a close eye on them. Regardless, it may still follow its instincts.
The goal in the wild is to grow large and reproduce often. Unfortunately, these animals do not realize that they have already lost the battle. To them, the game is still on, and everything is still a potential meal if it can catch it. This is a risk with many animals in the hobby.
Certainly if you don't want to risk losing any fish (and we are talking about smaller fish), shrimp, snails, etc., don't keep ANY species of brittle/serpentstar. I, for one, am not convinced that other species can't show this behavior as well. To this end, I will gladly take any monetary donations.
Dizzy,
Good of you to bring up one of my favorite species, Ophiomastix annulosa. Way to name drop!! :lol: Indeed, I have the good fortune of having one. And it recently recovered from a case of "mysterious large hole in disk" syndrome that sometimes comes up in brittlestars (probably from feeding injuries). I have a picture of it somewhere...I'll have to look for it later. It closed up an hole roughly 1/3 of the disk in about a week. It is looking a little rough around the edges at the moment, but so would I
I would also recommend a new LFS. The one you visit has rather strange practices. 8O I think taking that star back to any other LFS will get you a few bucks in credit.
Here we have an animal that does not even to have appeared to have done anything, but merely has a reputation!
Yes, I am well aware of the literature and while I thank you for looking it up (which few would have done), I do not need to see it. I am familiar with the scientific works upon which it is based.
And I am glad there are now answers to the questions that were asked. Now we can indeed argue some points and educate.
OK, for a start, and for my blood pressure, a post saying "my LFS gave me this brittlestar in a piece of LR and he said it is a fish eater, anyone have experience with this and should I give it back" would not have caused anywhere near the problems that this has.
So I'll happily chalk this one up to a learning experience, and offer my apologies as promised.
However, I will also say that I am glad that I acted as I did, because now you know there are sensitive issues in the hobby. If this is the case, then my reaction has resulted in some good. If it was a flame, well, it was the first productive flame I've seen. Flames are usually, by definition, not productive exchanges.
I spend an extraordinary amount of time on a number of message boards, and obviously would be dead if I got as worked up as I did in this one. Usually I only have a few of these blood boiling one's a week!
And often it is due to the inability to debate a point as easily and clearly as one would in person, though the intent may be just as good. I am still very much an academic. I do hope that people believe I am trying to educate, but if that is not the case, well, so be it I guess. FWI, yes, the green brittlestar Ophiarachna incrassata is a known predator in the wild, and is the species I alluded to earlier. A quick search on any reef board or google will give you lots of info on it. However, many people report having no problems with this animal at all, including myself. Its mere existence does not warrant its death. The key is to definitely keep them fed, and to keep a close eye on them. Regardless, it may still follow its instincts.
The goal in the wild is to grow large and reproduce often. Unfortunately, these animals do not realize that they have already lost the battle. To them, the game is still on, and everything is still a potential meal if it can catch it. This is a risk with many animals in the hobby.
Certainly if you don't want to risk losing any fish (and we are talking about smaller fish), shrimp, snails, etc., don't keep ANY species of brittle/serpentstar. I, for one, am not convinced that other species can't show this behavior as well. To this end, I will gladly take any monetary donations.
Dizzy,
Good of you to bring up one of my favorite species, Ophiomastix annulosa. Way to name drop!! :lol: Indeed, I have the good fortune of having one. And it recently recovered from a case of "mysterious large hole in disk" syndrome that sometimes comes up in brittlestars (probably from feeding injuries). I have a picture of it somewhere...I'll have to look for it later. It closed up an hole roughly 1/3 of the disk in about a week. It is looking a little rough around the edges at the moment, but so would I
It would be the first time I have ever heard of such a thing. Now, small hitchhikers (like the tiny white brittlestars we all generally have) are relatively common, but can also get WAAAY back into the little holes in the rock. The animals I am thinking of are probably no larger than a nickel or maybe a quarter including the arms, and I suspect not many of them actually survive the trip but reproduce quickly in our tanks (they are self fertilizing hermaphrodites). As a general rule, large brittlestars do not seem to survive the process. I wouldn't say it is impossible, but it certainly is not a common thing, and it would have to be a very unusual set of circumstances I would think.
Or that LFS owner is just a really unusual businessman, seeing how all the rest are supposedly all out to make a buck on anything they can (eg selling aptasia).
Or that LFS owner is just a really unusual businessman, seeing how all the rest are supposedly all out to make a buck on anything they can (eg selling aptasia).
Ophiuroid,
Hopefully, now that it seems all blood pressures ar back to normal, you would be willing to educate me!
Incredible pictures! Not knowing anything about brittlestars, I am curious as to how it could survive such a thing. And secondly, you said it was probably due to feeding injuries. Care to elaborate?
Hopefully, now that it seems all blood pressures ar back to normal, you would be willing to educate me!
Incredible pictures! Not knowing anything about brittlestars, I am curious as to how it could survive such a thing. And secondly, you said it was probably due to feeding injuries. Care to elaborate?
Ok, I wasn't able to get my camera working so I can't post an actual picture of the star. I did (somewhat) identify it, and have posted a pic from the series of books I have (The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium). The pic is a little off, imagine this star with a brown/tan color - http://www.geocities.com/gaweinrod/star_modern_pic.html . The book states that this is an unidentified species of the family Ophiuridae. For those of you who want to look at the info from this book concerning 'predator stars' go here - http://www.geocities.com/gaweinrod/star_modern.html . Now to answer some of the questions posed by other boardmembers.
reefworm wrote:
ophiuroid wrote:
The dealer that I currently use is pretty much the only one in my area. There is another but it has recently been under fire for maltreating its animals. If anybody knows of a good dealer in the fairfield/bridgeport CT area I'd definately check it out.
dizzy wrote:
I'm thinking that my LFS wasn't able to extract the star when he sold me the rock, and might have just offered to take it back so that he could resell it. I don't think this is the case, but would explain why the star came attached in the first place - and if this isn't a dangerous star why he told me that it ate fish.
reefworm wrote:
ophiuroid wrote:
The dealer that I currently use is pretty much the only one in my area. There is another but it has recently been under fire for maltreating its animals. If anybody knows of a good dealer in the fairfield/bridgeport CT area I'd definately check it out.
dizzy wrote:
I'm thinking that my LFS wasn't able to extract the star when he sold me the rock, and might have just offered to take it back so that he could resell it. I don't think this is the case, but would explain why the star came attached in the first place - and if this isn't a dangerous star why he told me that it ate fish.
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