Water Change Tank-Flow Diagram, Will This Work?

[Anonymous]

Ok, as most of you know, I am planning a 300G built in reef tank. I want to include an extra tank in the stand that can be by-passed. The tank would increase the tanks capacity while it is running, and serve as a tank for the mixing of new saltwater come time for a WC. The ideas is to install balls valves so that the WC tank can be taken out of the system. The tank would be pump empty do a drain. This WC tank will have a line from my RO unit to refill and have a float switch to shut it off at the appropriate level. Then I would add salt and allow it it aerate for a while, then reverse the ball valves and viola, water change done with no buckets or brute cans.

This is my first attempt at doing sketches and it shows. I'll get better with time. I downloaded a trial version of Smartdraw.

I plan to sketch out all of my ideas for this new 300G tank so that I can get everyones input and hopefully build it right for the first time.

This diagram is only meant to show flow. Pipe sizes, pump sizes, etc. etc, will be designed latter.

Thanks for your input.

Louey

 

[wade1]

First thing is that you don't want your sump raised above the water change chamber. You'll have to actively pump water into the sump when you change and you risk (if the valve fails) the entire sump+ draining out. Keep it on the lowest level and put a valve between the sump and water tank. That way, once you make up new water, you can drain the main tank from a return (split it, etc) and open the valve... as the new water floods into the sump, its moved into the main tank. (You also don't need to pump it directly to the main tank, into sump is fine).

Any particular reason for 2 return lines to the main tank?

Don't bring any returns to the water change tank, just run the extra out to drain... you can't both drain into it and make new water in it all at once.

Keep in mind you'll need a regular topoff method as well, whether a float switch or another, esp if your sump is small.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Wade

 

[liquid]

I seem to recall that Fergy has something similar setup on his tank. Basically he has a 100 gal rubbermaid trough that he mixes his saltwater in for waterchanges. IIRC, he bypasses the "return to tank line" from the sump and has the return pump set to pump water from the sump into the waste water line of his house. When he's done, he opens the valve to the waterchange trough and closes the waste line so that the new water is pumped into the main tank from the waterchange tank.

hth

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

Wade said:

First thing is that you don't want your sump raised above the water change chamber. You'll have to actively pump water into the sump when you change and you risk (if the valve fails) the entire sump+ draining out. Keep it on the lowest level and put a valve between the sump and water tank.

The ball valve between the sump and the WC tank would likely be 2 - 2" pipes. I thought that the water from the WC tank would naturally flow though to the sump, no?

Any particular reason for 2 return lines to the main tank?

I think an 8' long tank would need two return, but it prolly should be tee'd off one return pump. I'm thinking a couple of seaswirls for the returns, and a couple of Tunze Stream for the flow in this tank, but that is another thread later.

Keep in mind you'll need a regular topoff method as well, whether a float switch or another, esp if your sump is small.

Indeed, all these things will be thought out before the first time in installed.

Louey

 

[wade1]

The ball valve between the sump and the WC tank would likely be 2 - 2" pipes. I thought that the water from the WC tank would naturally flow though to the sump, no?

Based on your drawing, your WC tank is below the level of your sump (even water level at the top) which means that water would not normall flow from the WC tank into the sump, it has to be higher to drain into something. Sounds like you are planning it well at least.

As for tunze streams, they are great, but if you are thinkign custom tank, do recirculating loops... same cost, no obtrusive or readily breakable parts in the tank that way.

Wade

 

[Anonymous]

Based on your drawing, your WC tank is below the level of your sump (even water level at the top) which means that water would not normall flow from the WC tank into the sump, it has to be higher to drain into something.

I fooled around with the sketch a little more at home tonight. The sketch below shows the running water level. The pipe(s) that connect the sump and the WC tank together are below the running water line. I beleive water will naturally flow without any pumps in this arrangement.

The initial problem with my idea is that must sumps don't run a very high water level and you need room for when you turn off the pumps. Any tank connected to it would have the same running height, which would make any WC tank almost useless. This 300G tank will be in a fairly tall stand, so elevating the sump helps me to make a larger WC tank. I'm hoping for a 75G tank so that i can do a 25% WC. The stand can also be deeper (front to back) than the tank, so i should be able to make it fit.

Does it make more sense yet, or do i need to go back to the drawing board?

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

As for tunze streams, they are great, but if you are thinkign custom tank, do recirculating loops... same cost, no obtrusive or readily breakable parts in the tank that way.

Good point Wade, but...This tank will be 8 feet wide and recessed into a wall. The wall opening on the family room side will be 7 wide, or a little less. With this in mind, I think a Tunze Stream mounted on each side, out of view, and with a mutli-controller, would be the best flow possible. I want killer flow, with low velocity The decision on the Tunze is not final, and I am completely open to suggestions. I also want to consider power consumption for every aspect of this tanks design. After all, the expense don't end when the install is compete. I have to pay the power bill, which was already $236 this month.

Louey

 

[wade1]

You still have to put the sump on the bottom of the stand in order for it to work out. There is no driving force (gravity) that will push water from the WC tank into the sump. Unless you use a pump, which is a waste. Alter the drawing to put the sump on teh floor of the stand.

Also, if you do lower the sump, you can plumb a skimmer right into it if you want, without having to set the skimmer up on something (and most large enough skimmers will not fit raised under even a taller stand).

As for tunze vs loops... an ampmaster or sequence pump has fairly low power draw, and if you split the output, you can get tremendous water flow with lower velocity. Tunze's are nice, but I prefer having pumps on loops. (There is very little head pressure on a loop btw) The one major risk to a loop is the possibility of a leaky bulkhead, although that is rare.

Lookin good so far!

Wade

 

[Anonymous]

You still have to put the sump on the bottom of the stand in order for it to work out. There is no driving force (gravity) that will push water from the WC tank into the sump

I drew the return pump for clarity. Would this pump not suck the water through the sump and the WC tank, via the pipes that connect the two? If it wouldn't, I have a whole new respect for plumbers, because I can't figure it out.

Louey

 

[wade1]

No, the pump will not suck water out. Once it reaches the bottom of the bulkhead, the water in the WC tank will no longer flow into the sump, so it will drain the sump, drain the WC tank to the lowest edge of the pipe and then draw nothing. You MUST lower the sump to the bottom of the stand...

It'll also prevent the risk of knocking it over.

Wade

 

[wade1]

This is where you need to place things... See how gravity will now pull the water from the WC tank DOWN into the sump when you open a valve? Water can't move uphill without a pump to put it there... this way its a simple matter of opening the valve...

 

[Anonymous]

In this configuration, in the event of a power outage, the WC tank would overflow the sump and make a nasty mess,no?

Or are you assuming the the sump and the WC tank are actually the same height?

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Is this what you had in mind:

 

[Anonymous]

I have a tank that is the same volume as my sump, and it sits higher than the sump. I fill it with RO water and salt and let a powerhead stir it until it is ready. I then shut down my return pump, close a valve to the tank and open a valve to the sewer. I restart the pump and pump the sump dry. Now I move the water from the mixing tank to the sump via gravity, reset the valves and the water change is done.

 

[Mogo]

Louey:
Heh, I just wrote a long diatribe before I read cwa46's post. He took the words out of my mouth (or off my page).

Your sump then becomes the central unit for water changes. Wastewater out from aquarium to sump to sewer. Makeup water in from wc tank to sump to aquarium via siphon.

Any rate, you need to lower your sump.

 

[Mogo]

Sorry I should have said wc tank to sump via gravity, sump to aquarium via pump as normal.

 

[Anonymous]

A very interesting thread! I wish you the best in your planning, louey! I'm also happy to hear about your anthias!

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Chris!

Does anyone else see a problem with the last sketch?

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Ok,

After chatting in #reefs, and reading the comments above, I have decided to take the WC tank out of the main tanks circulation. The revised sketch below shows the new plan.

With this arrangment, the return pump will be shut off so that the sump fills to the same capacity as the WC tank. Once emptied, the sump will be refilled by a cheap pump in the WC tank. That's it!

Okay?

Louey

 

[ChrisRD]

Looks a lot better. Two quick questions.

Shouldn't the flow lines be going from the RO/DI unit toward the sump/wc tank instead of away (I know - I'm nitpicking )?

Also, how can you control the fluid level in two different tanks with two float switches with one RO/DI unit? Won't you need solenoids or something so only the tank that needs water is getting water?

Nice job BTW.