Southdown Sand possibly toxic?....

[lawndoctor]

The batch of SD play sand that I had the misfortune to put in my tank was contaminated with some substance which turned to cement in my tank. Within hours after adding the play sand, a thick cement layer formed on every internal surface of the tank, filter, sump, overflow, probes, etc. It had to be chiseled off and made a huge mess. This same thing happened to at least one other person I know of. Based on my personal experience with this stuff, I do not believe SD's warning is purely a marketing ploy, as some have hypothesized.

 

[ChrisRD]

According to some dialogue that's popped up on this board before, Marcona Ocean Industries supplies sand to both CaribSea and Southdown. The label on the Southdown playsand apparently has something to do with a non-compete agreement.

Here's the thread:
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24&highlight=marcona+southdown

On the silicone thing - apparently in the past it was indicated on the label of GE Type-I that it was suitable for aquarium use. Recent labeling has eliminated this statement, although it appears to be the same product.

Check this thread and scroll down to the last post:

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17187&highlight=silicone

 

[Anonymous]

I put 100 lbs of Southdown sand in my 55 gal and have had no trouble at all. I followed all the pointers I have read online such as curing it in a rubbermaid trash container. If my 10$ worth of sand had turned to cement I would have dumped it and went and bought some more from a different lot. All I would have been out of is the 10$ and some time. As for all the arguments about heavy metals why not just run carbon and polyfilters, I mean we use that method to rid our quarantine tank of copper after treatment anyway. I just think that buying 20 lbs of a certain brands sand for 28$ is ludicrious especially when you still have to cure it and then seed it to get a good DSB going. Add to that the fact that all the LFS around here only have bags of sand that have old expiration dates on them anyway. Plus some of the date tags have been taken off.

One more thing, I kind of believe the story about a closed door agreement between the two distributers. If Southdown put a line on their bag that said "This product works great for aquariums" They would only sell a tiny amount more than they do now, but Carib Sea would go out of business.

There is my 2.03 cents

Bryan Flanigan

 

[tazdevil]

This poster writes that Southdown does not magnetically filter, screen or test for heavy metals. He states that Carib sea is a leader in the process of "to screen the sand of heavy metals is very intricate process".

Now there's a problem. Why would the sand be considered safe for "play" and not for aquariums? Play sand means it will be injested, as we all know, kids can and do injest sand (although my 3y/o preferred the expensive black dirt when he was younger 8O :lol: 8O ). If heavy metals where a threat to the tanks, they would also e a threat to our kids. I'll give you the lead example, it's been discussed in medical circles that even smaller amounts of lead are more poisinous than originally thought. What else? Mercury? Not even discussable-"trace" amounts are also dangerous. They must consider this with the play sand, otherwise you'd see the biggest recall in a long time.
Now the one catch is the silicate level. Silica may be the reason one's considered safe and the other is not- perhaps caribsea is screened for that better. Silica is not absorbed into the body well, tends to pass right through. In aquarium use, theory exists that silica may cause some algae problems.

 

[lawndoctor]

I followed all the pointers I have read online such as curing it in a rubbermaid trash container. If my 10$ worth of sand had turned to cement I would have dumped it and went and bought some more from a different lot. All I would have been out of is the 10$ and some time.

I've never heard of "curing" play sand. I would appreciate hearing more about this suggestion. In my case, using play sand was a costly mistake. It took weeks to chisel everything clean, do many major water changes, and replace several hundred dollars worth of live rock, filter parts, and a pH probe. All to save $20 on substrate for my $4,000 reef system. I really wanted to hit myself - repeatedly - and running out to buy more of this stuff was the last thing I would have done. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

 

[Robin Goodfellow]

In aquarium use, theory exists that silica may cause some algae problems.

hi.
The "theory" is as sound as many other "theories" (reads: misinfomation) in this hobby. Do a search, and decide the soundness for yourself.

 

[reefann]

What would buying sand from another lot have to do with anything?? All the stuff comes from the same pile. I have not yet used SD and don't see myself doing so anytime soon.
JJ
_________________
us economy recession

 

[Anonymous]

Now there's a problem. Why would the sand be considered safe for "play" and not for aquariums?

If it doesn't have to be approved bt the FDA they'll let kids play in anything. A while back I got something labeled play sand for my niece and nephew. It had an odd powdery consistency and when I looked at it up close it was clearly some kind of textile or papermaking byproduct. We didn't let the kids play in it, but I left the top off the sandbox and after a rain it hardened into something between paper-mache and plaster of paris!

 

[MattM]

If it can be proven by anyone that Southdown and Carib-Sea do not come from the the same source I would be very surprised.

We've looked at both under the microscope - they're identical.

Southdown isn't screened or filtered? Well neither is Carib-Sea. We've gone though many, many bags of both, we've found sticks, a rusty nail, and once even a .22 caliber shell in Carib-Sea sand.

They're the same folks, one just costs more.

 

[MattM]

Now there's a problem. Why would the sand be considered safe for "play" and not for aquariums?

If it doesn't have to be approved bt the FDA they'll let kids play in anything.

Take a look at Quick-Crete Play Sand. A drawing of a kid in a sand box on the front of the bag, and a warning about the dangers of inhaling silica dust on the back!

 

[lawndoctor]

We've gone though many, many bags of both, we've found sticks, a rusty nail, and once even a .22 caliber shell in Carib-Sea sand.

So many people have asked this question so many times. This is the first time I have seen it answered succinctly and based on direct personal experience. Thank you for posting this information.

 

[Robin Goodfellow]

a .22 caliber shell in Carib-Sea sand.

8O
hi.
I guess some people in Carib-Sea is VERY delicated to their job, but killing oneself is too much....

 

[clyde]

hmm then I should use my Magavore IIV magnet and use it on the sand, and see what I get out of that..

This poster writes that Southdown does not magnetically filter, screen or test for heavy metals. He states that Carib sea is a leader in the process of "to screen the sand of heavy metals is very intricate process". He doesnt state that Caribe sea magnetically filters the sand either. But he sure does make it sound that the caribe sea screening process means filtering ("screen the sand of heavy metals"). How does one screen [Possibly 100,000 tons per month] the sand of heavy metals? I guess if Caribe Sea tested its sand for heavy metals and others suppliers did not then yes they could be classified as the leader. He also asks us to "remember that southdown does not disinfect, treat or wash the sand" but doesnt state whether or not Caribe Sea does. As for a "aquarium in California" which one is it? The aquarium or aquariums must have tested for the source of heavy metal contamination(where are the results?) that caused "the largest budgetary concern". If someone wants to eliminate heavy metal contamination and spend lots of mula I imagine they would look for the source of contamination before they spend money on trying to get rid of it. He doesnt state how or if Caribe Sea covers or trucks their sand. Does he state that Caribe Sea has huge warehouses and their own fleet of trucks to move and store their tons of sand? I see a lot of statements made to imply there is a difference to sway the reader. And he sure must have ties to Caribe Sea to intimately know all of the implied differences.

 

[Anonymous]

I followed all the pointers I have read online such as curing it in a rubbermaid trash container. If my 10$ worth of sand had turned to cement I would have dumped it and went and bought some more from a different lot. All I would have been out of is the 10$ and some time.

I've never heard of "curing" play sand. I would appreciate hearing more about this suggestion. In my case, using play sand was a costly mistake. It took weeks to chisel everything clean, do many major water changes, and replace several hundred dollars worth of live rock, filter parts, and a pH probe. All to save $20 on substrate for my $4,000 reef system. I really wanted to hit myself - repeatedly - and running out to buy more of this stuff was the last thing I would have done. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

Well, lawndoctor,

Its not my idea to cure play sand, but someone from wetwebmedia (I can't remember who). After spending about 300$ on fish and killing them all in my own little marine concentration camp, I decided it would be prudent to learn something. So I started reading and asking tons of questions online. The guy I talked to said to cure/quarantine anything wet. I took this to mean play sand, and it was right after I started that process that I read about someones sand turning to cement (probably you). What I did is put the sand in a trash can with a heater and air, and changed tons of water. The first 5 or 6 times the water looked thicker than milk. I didn't even bother with salt until the water stopped being so cloudy. Then I added 1 bag of so called live sand waited a week and put it in my tank. I did get a layer of residue on the hoses to my canister filter, but that was just while everything was settling down. After hearing your story I think the next time I put a DSB in a tank I will go through the same procedure. The only problem I had was the trash can in the living room for a month. The wife was glad when that was gone. Guess what it's back again curing my live rock! HA HA

 

[LLLosingit]

You guys crack me up.
There are thousands of people that use Southdown and I personally have it in 3 different tanks. I bought and sold pallets of the stuff and not one person has had a problem.
If the sand hardened in your tank then you have a water problem not a sand problem.
It would have cost me close to $500 to fill just one tank and refuge with the other brands that the LFS carries and I looked online and the price wasn't any cheaper.
The cost for the southdown was $60 and the other $440 paid for my live rock.
If you want to spend almost 10X the money for the same product in a different bag more power to ya. I have better things to spend my money on.

 

[lawndoctor]

If the sand hardened in your tank then you have a water problem not a sand problem.

All water parameters were perfect. The stuff formed a 1/4" layer of cement on everything. If you actually have a viable alternative explanation based on personal experience, please let us know.

 

[Anonymous]

The usual explanation for this is calcium carbonate precipitating out of solution on the sand particles, I believe. I don't know the exact chemistry of it though.

 

[Robin Goodfellow]

hi.
Seem to me that you have a running system, and decided to add more sand. Knowing that sand will go everywhere, most people would have shut of the water flow in order to make the sand settle down quicker. I don't understand why would you have the pump running so that the sand get everywhere...

 

[arnjer]

I have used SD and will continue to use it. I think I read somewhere once that ALK had a part in most it not all sand to "clump". I really think it's all a "marketing thing".

Jerry

[email protected]

 

[Marrowbone]

I knew I had read something like this earlier, it sure was easy to find. Have you all seen this?

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/sa ... nting.html