Weekly Discussion - Do we really want this hobby to grow?

[Anonymous]

Weekly Discussion - Do we really want this hobby to grow?

With all the talk of reef destruction and animal death due to our hobby, and given that 'mistakes' (read 'deaths') occur as part of the learning curve, do we really want to encourage more people to keep reef tanks?

One point to keep in mind: the average hobbyist does not read boards such as RDO.

About the RDO Weekly Discussion:
This discussion is meant to get at your experience and to share information that is in your head, so don't necessarily treat it as information gathering. State your opinion and, if available, use material, anecdotal or otherwise, that will back up your opinion.
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[Anonymous]

Lets shut it down!

 

[Anonymous]

If I truly had the best interests of the animals at heart, I would agree with you. Just think of the dive trips I could do with the money spent on my tank...

 

[Mnemic]

We want new people into the hobby, but I agree we want to preserve the reefs and oceans as much as possible. IMO the best way to go about doing that is to start people off with Critters and things that are tank born/raised, and not caught in the ocean.

This will greatly help with the tearing of reefs apart if we can grow and raise corals, fish, and inverts in tank as much as possible. I understand that there is a GREAT deal of critters that we just can't get to reproduce in captivity, but hopefully with time and greater studies, we will oneday understand what it takes.

IMHO Of course

-PAul

 

[Tazzmacd]

I for one am torn between putting up a new big salt water tank and putting up a fresh water tank. The tank itself would be 24X24X96, built into the wall of my basement. On the Fresh water side, the fish that I would be stocking it with are all tank bread fish, so I am not taking anything out of the wild. They can be colourful but not nearly as nice as a well setup Reef tank. On the other hand, most of the fish and corals that I will be putting into the tank would be wild caught. The more people that enter, the more that we will need to take from the wild. If it is managed properly then I think it could be done. The only issue is the people that will be doing the management might not manage it properly. As I said, I am still torn and most likely won't decide for a few more months while I get my final plans in place and actually start the construction of the basement.

It's a tough question and there will be good arguements on both sides. Would it be possible to limit the supply to strickly tank bread corals and fish?? Could a company still make enough money to do this and would the hobby last?? That is the more difficult question. Right now I think not, but in another 3 or 5 years, possibly. Look at the improvements that have been made in even the last 5 years in this hobby. I was just starting about 5 years ago but had to stop because of a move. Now after Iam finally in a place that I will be for a long while I want to get back into it again. And in that time frame a lot has changed.

This is not a light undertaking that should be jumped into and I bellieve that this board has been a great help with my research on if I want to go salt water at this point.

Cheers!!

Pat

PS I will be sure to keep you posted on what I decide.

 

[Anonymous]

With all the talk of reef destruction and animal death due to our hobby, and given that 'mistakes' (read 'deaths') occur as part of the learning curve, do we really want to encourage more people to keep reef tanks?

Of course we do.

1) New perspectives and new approaches are how advances in husbandry are made. If the hobby remains static, it hinders progress and our understanding of some of the intricacies of reef ecology.

2) Once a fish has been collected it's never going back regardless of how long it lives. And the number of fish that never even make it to adulthood simply due to predation on the reef is huge. I doubt that the "learning curve" actually damages the reef as much as people think it does. Not that that gives us any reason to try not to avoid needless death. But the point is the actual harvesting of the animals (regardless of type or suitability), is much less important than how they are harvested.

3) And most importantly. Money talks. The bigger the hobby gets the more money it controls. Currently, demand on the reef is low enough compared to the avaliability, that sloppy collection, destructive practices, and poor handling can be overlooked without too much negative feedback. The bigger the industry the more organized and streamlined it will become. The more money to be made the more important protecting the investment or resource becomes. The greater the visibility of the industry becomes the louder the demand for a quality product will become. Think about the transition that the local farmer has gone through in this country.

4) And less importantly, I'd like to buy a house soon. :wink:

 

[SteveC1]

I am relatively new to this hobby. Before I got interested in reefkeeping, I would have agreed that preserving the world's reefs is important if anyone asked me about it, but it was only after getting started in the hobby that I developed an appreciation for what's at stake. Seeing reefs on TV isn't the same as seeing them, even in greatly reduced form, in person.

What's more, when you see how easy it is for minor fluctuations in water chemistry to mess up your own tank, the thought of a river filled with agricultural runoff and industrial waste emptying into the ocean right next to a reef has tremendous impact!

 

[Anonymous]

I think we should all raise Spotted Owls. So what if most of them die in our care, think of what fun it is and how much we are learning. And if we can find a way to raise Spotted Owls in capativity, then everyone can keep one. If not we can just catch more from the wild.

 

[Anonymous]

Well ... the reefs ain't gettin' any better, you know? Eventually, they will be horribly damaged beyond our ability to repair. Perhaps not completely destroyed, but for all purposes, toast.

When that happens, one of two things is likely.

1. Sometime before the destruction is complete, developed nations will nuke the SW hobby industry by banning the import of any new fish. It's unlikely that any of the 3rd world nations that typically engage in the actual harvesting will stop until the demand is gone, so developed nations will have to find a way to kill demand. Effectively, we will be limited to what we can keep and breed in an aquarium.

or

2 . All the reefs are dead from pollution, commercial destruction, generally our fault. Because of this, we will be limited to what we can keep and breed in aquariums.


...

Someday we could be viewed as conservationists. The more people get into the hobby, the more money is spend researching it. The more we know, the more we can save someday?

That's the idealist point of view for ya.

 

[Anonymous]

I like my reef and you can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. IMO, we should do something like Ducks Unlimited or many other hunting organizations. Hunting lisence fees, stamps, etc go to pay for the study of the animal in question. It also goes to education in wildlife and management. IMO, this is needed in our hobby. I have suggested lisencing several times and those that keep reefs don't seemto think it a good idea :?: I don't get it. IMO, if something isn't done, it will soon be regulated. Look at the FLorida and Australian reef situation. No Florida coral and none can be exported from Oz. THis will probably happen pretty soon to many others as governments"cave" to environmental groups. (At least we are safe with GB in power ) I would love for the hobby to grow, but slowly and with education. Things like MACO, Coral Realm, Advanced Aquarist are all steps in teh right direction. Heck, I educate some of the LFS's to "new" things. I have given them shrimp cycling instructions. They were amazed. If our hobbt is to grow "correctly" we need to be at the forefront of the growth and take responsibility for the effect we have on the reefs.

 

[Anemone]

3) And most importantly. Money talks. The bigger the hobby gets the more money it controls. Currently, demand on the reef is low enough compared to the avaliability, that sloppy collection, destructive practices, and poor handling can be overlooked without too much negative feedback. The bigger the industry the more organized and streamlined it will become. The more money to be made the more important protecting the investment or resource becomes. The greater the visibility of the industry becomes the louder the demand for a quality product will become. Think about the transition that the local farmer has gone through in this country.

Exactly. Additionally, the more money this hobby represents, the more R&D money that will be available for things like tank raising more species of fish, and better ways of keeping them alive.

JMO,
Kevin

 

[Anonymous]

Righty wrote:

Do we really want this hobby to grow?

Well I see the trade/hobby as a double edged sword. In one way the only way most people will understand the reefs is if someone brings the reefs to the people, and the other is that by bringing the reefs to the people you are depleting the natural world of wildlife. All in all there is only one possible path of progress for the trade/hobby to continue. People must become more environmentally conscious and think about repercussions in the future for thier actions now.

Opposing most environmental legislation and practices are of course the evil of BIG buisness. To start preserving the oceans and it's wildlife you must first overcome some major opponents like OIL. You would be suprised of how many oil spills go unreported every year, or month for that matter. Not to mention the legislation they shoot down repeatedly with their lobbying. Overcome Oil and the surrounding big buisnesses and maybe life on this blue jewel of a planet will continue to flourish.

 

[ReeferAl]

I few years ago, shortly after I got back into the saltwater aquarium hobby after a 15 year break, when someone would make a comment like "I've thought about getting a saltwater tank" I would jump right in and encourage them. Now I generally don't give any encouragement to those with such a casual interest. On the other hand I have a neighbor who has kept freshwater fish for years including raising discus and other species. He recently talked about his interest in trying a saltwater tank. In that case I told him honestly what it would take, offered to lend him some books and recommended web sites like this and Advanced Aquarist Online to him.
My point is, it is good to see continued growth in the hobby to the extent it is informed, educated, committed growth. We need to set a good example of how to keep a reef and encourage new hobbiests to follow that example and continue to be "Conscientious Aquarists". Our goal should be when members of boards like this are the majority of reefkeepers not the minority.

 

[Tankless in Dubai]

Doesn't it all start with the LFS?

Example... I develop an interest in saltwater fishkeeping. I go down to the local pet shop and ask what I need to get started.

It seems to me that knowledgeable LFS employees is the best way to actually prepare newbies to be responsible hobbyists.

I know... I know... impossible you say... but in a perfect world manufacturers and distributors and even advanced hobbyists/educators would work diligently to educate and inform LFS employees as a first line of defence.

Yes - there are many who research the hobby by reading and surfing prior to getting started. Bless them and us who spend time here doing our best to reef/fish keep as responsibly as we can considering there is so much more that remains to be learned about keeping our tanks.