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Anonymous

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up or down?

I measured my salinity last night and it seemd oddly low. The temp in the tank was high however....
 
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Anonymous

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Hey don't you have anything by a real scientist?

Just kidding!!!!!!!

OK, being a complete idiot- my refractometer measures specific gravity, could it show a low reading if the temp is high?
 

ChrisRD

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DanConnor":t4wut3vf said:
my refractometer measures specific gravity, could it show a low reading if the temp is high?

All of the ones I've seen automatically compensate for temperature, so you're probably getting an accurate specific gravity reading even if your temp is high/low.

The chart above comes into play for detemining salt content (in PPT) at that temp and specific gravity reading.
 

brandon4291

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This is going to sound really dumb, but I have wondered this too. I see the ppt increases as temperature increases, but why? I figured colder water would be more dense and therefore would float a swingarm higher...eg a higher salinity? What up with that and where am I backwards>
 
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Anonymous

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Doesn't water expand as it cools, unlike other stuff?
 

ChrisRD

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DanConnor":hbp9c066 said:
Doesn't water expand as it cools, unlike other stuff?

No, it does get more dense as it cools, and less dense as it gets warmer. It expands if it freezes. It is most dense right before freezing - weird, huh?

I understand what you're getting at and it makes sense, however, the refractometer supposedly compensates for that temp/density relationship.

I've not checked into it, but I can only assume there is some consistent relationship between refractive properties of light through water and water temp. The units must be designed to make use of that relationship (just a guess)...
 
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Anonymous

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Ok, how about a floating hydrometer. When the temp gets cooler it should float higher, right?
 

ChrisRD

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DanConnor":3ibbk4gh said:
Ok, how about a floating hydrometer. When the temp gets cooler it should float higher, right?

Yeah, the hydrometers are calibrated for a certain temp, so you have to calculate an adjustment factor (based on the difference in your tank temp from the calibration temp).

Randy did an article on this stuff a while back:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2002/chemistry.htm
 
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Anonymous

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No, it does get more dense as it cools, and less dense as it gets warmer.

Generally, it is true. But being a RPITA, between 0 deg. C and 4 deg. C (as if we reefer really care about that temperature range... :roll: ) water will expands slightly as it cool.

For the cases of a floating measurement, keep in mind that the relative expansion coefficient of BOTH the liquid (water) and the floation device (plastic coin within the swing arm, or the glass bubble thingy) must be consider.

For ATC refractometer, there is a mechanical device that push/pull the prizm depends on the ambient temperature. It is necessary for the water sample to be at the same temp as the meter for it to work well.
 

reeftanklfs

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Hi guys:
We're not chemists, but we know enough to be dangerous. Dan, to answer your question simply - Down. Refracts measure the salinity content of seawater using a known refractive index of an element, and the results are normally read in ppt. In a sense, yes it's measuring the density of a sample, but the role temperature has in the results with a refract are not as direct as with a hydrometer. First, with a hydrometer (swing arms we're talking about, but the same should apply to floating ones too) the measuring instrument is submersed in the water, thus temperature has a huge direct affect on the result. Whereas, with a refract, the sample is so small that as soon as it hits the prism plate, the temperatures begin to equalize immediately (or at least within about 30 seconds).

The ATC that refracts can come with are a nice "luxury", but not necessary. The atc is there really to calibrate the refract to the ambient air temp where the measurement is going to be taken, not the sample to the refract. One note about atc's is that they can go bad after a while. Not sure how long of a while, but the strip of metal that the prism sits on will expand and contract (acting like a spring) due to the air temp. Because of it's continual expansion and contraction the "spring" will eventually wear out. That's why sometimes it's better to go with a refract w/o the atc. Just our opin.

The cheap Chinese refracts that everyone buys in the hobby happen to include both the ppt and the specific gravity scales, very convenient, since we're all so used to using the s.g. scale. However, we just learned something curious over on RC, that all Chinese refracts are actually calibrated to measure NaCl, not seawater. However, as we understand it, the difference between the two scales is minimal, and there appears to be a conversion table available. Do a search over on RC for the thread. HTH - Staff
 
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Anonymous

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Refracts measure the salinity content of seawater using a known refractive index of an element, and the results are normally read in ppt.
more specifically, it is the molar refractivity coefficient of chlorine (Cl-) and sodium (Na+) ions in water that was used in refractometer.

Man, do I sound like a real chemist or what? :wink:
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks for the insight reeftanklfs. What are you the Staff of?
 

reeftanklfs

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Hi Dan:
We own an lrs (local reef shop) up here in the DC area; hence, the staff nombre de guerre.

Hey Dave, you talk the talk buddy 8) .

Staff
 

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