Problem with Emperor Angel

[929rrchico]

ok here it goes....I have an Emperor angel (Juv) which is starting to get white blotches/spots on him – no sign of viral infection or growth or tear or anything, just blotches of discoloration. Last time this happened on another emperor, it died a few days later. The other thing that it appears to be doing is going up to other fish, like a small butterfly and even a dog face puffer (all fish are docile in the aquarium and none of them fight) and they both rub up against each other and flap their fins with each other….any idea what this is (again, last time I saw fish doing this they ended up dieing on me)?????

I've also noticed a cuople of other fish (percula clown and blue tang) scratching up against live rock - guessing ick, but no sign or trace of it....??

Here is the current specs:

Food: Spectrum Premium A+ Pellets
Water Quality:
a. nitrate – 5ppm
b. nitrite – 0
c. ammonia – 0
d. PH - 8.23 – 8.30
e. Specific Gravity – 1.021

Water Temperature: 77-79F

Tank info:

125Gallon
Pre-drilled on both sides
Sealife Systems Wet-Dry filter
(3) chemi-pure carbons
Lifeguard 8watt UV sterilizer (switching to 40watt) – currently running with dedicated RIO 1700 pump, sucking from the sump going back to the sump - at roughly 350-400GPH
Mag-Drive Utility pump model 18 (1800GPH) used for both returns
Aqualogic 1/4HP Chiller
Protein Skimmer

Any help would greatly be appreciated – thanks in advance.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, I'm hoping you have a good sized hospital-q/t tank, because I think your most prudent course of action at this point would be to definitely remove the angel and start him on Spectrogram, ASAP. (Especially because you've experienced this before with rapid demise.)

I'm only guessing at a bacterial infection here, if the fish are infected with ich then you'd see the cysts forming on them at one point or another. If this happens then you'll definitely need the q/t to remove all vertebrate life to.

I hope the fish is still eating well, if so, give him his food soaked in supplement (Selcon or such) daily, give him every boost you can. In the meantime, take a look here http://www.petswarehouse.com/Fishmed3.htm and here http://www.petswarehouse.com/Fishmed2.htm for other medications that may be indicated. Also, search our library http://www.reefs.org/library as well as the Advanced Aquarist database, and I'm also going to point you towards http://www.wetwebmedia.com to search their disease database.

Sorry, heading down to S.D. today to do some learning (for the wetweb site) and don't have time this morning to do any other searching for you. I wouldn't do a f/w dip, as with no ich cysts apparent I see no need at this point. Just get him into the antibiotic ASAP, and search these links, hopefully this is somewhat helpful.

Good luck!

 

[929rrchico]

thanks a ton chief - going to the fish store in a bit and buying some medication...

 

[929rrchico]

ok - I also got a 72G which has a semicirculatus and another tank 125G which has a Koran angel and they're both showing the same symptoms on the discoloration. No scrathing or anything just pathces of discoloration on their skin, as if they were born with a skin disease. I've already determined it's not ich or velvet since it's not a superficial item - meaning it's not something on top of their skin, it's their actual skin which is discoloured....any thoughts on this - I can not find a reference to this anywhere - has anyone ever seen this - could this be stress.

Also, on the 72G it could not be nutrition since I've been feeding them a variety of foods, such as silver sides, pellets, frozen cubes...

Water values and temperature remain the same as above - just tested this morning.

 

[dizzy]

I definitely think it could be stress related. I often see the imperators or semis get faded bloches when they are moved. Usually it goes away after they are settled in to the new tank. I would consider it an indication of stress or wrong conditions. Parasitic infestations can also trigger this response, but they are not always the cause.

 

[Terry B]

Large angelfish frequently exhibit multi-focal depigmentation when suffering from external parasites. However, there are several possble causes for the blotches that you describe. If you cannot see any white "salt like" spots on any of the fish that share the aquarium then it may not be ich, or the spots will become visible given a few more days. If it was my fish I would move them carefully to quarantine and treat them with a formalin dips for gill flukes. Just dropping the salinity low enough (hyposalinity) will clear some gill parasites, but a series of three formalin dips, one every third day is more effective. Do not attempt to use formaldehyde unless you fully understand the procedure, precautions, and methodology. Bacterial infection is a possible cause but it would generally be secondary to parasitic attack.
So I would move the fish to quarantine give it hyposalinity therapy, treat it with a series of formalin dips and use a good antibiotic such as Maracyn-Two or Nitrofurazone (Furacyn). Spectogram isn't a bad choice either, but not my first choice. If you become convinced that the fish has a stubborn external bacterial infection then you can combine Neomycin 250/mg gal with Nitrofurazone 40/mg gal for 3 to 5 days. Dose the water only once on the first day and then leave the fish in the medicated water for the rest of the treatment. Change the water after the five days.
Avoid removing the fish from water during transfer. Use a plastic bag or container rather than a net. Nets cause more injury than anything. I
f you have a good health food store that knows thier stuff then they will know what Beta glucan is. Get some and put a small pinch on the fish food each day for a week or more.
Terry B

 

[929rrchico]

Terry, take a look at the following post, I've posted some pics on there:

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t ... highlight=

 

[Terry B]

You described the condition well enough without the photo. A LARGE water change with well aged and aerated water is usually a good first move. If the fish doesn't respond to that then I would follow my previous suggestions.
Terry B

 

[929rrchico]

Thanks for all the info!

 

[929rrchico]

FYI - for those interested and in case this happens to you, it was all stress related. Purchased a couple of more live rock and created a couple of more hiding places, almost instantly (within 2 hours), he was back to his normal color.

Amazing!